Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2013 July 31

= July 31 =

Jesus' death on the cross an illusion?
Can someone identify the Muslim verse, Qu'ran or otherwise, that says Jesus death on the cross was an appearance, not a reality? Thanks. μηδείς (talk) 03:19, 31 July 2013 (UTC)


 * It's in the Docetism article... AnonMoos (talk) 03:29, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
 * 4:157. - Nunh-huh 03:29, 31 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks. μηδείς (talk) 17:01, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Racism of Woodrow Wilson and Wikipedia policy on NPOV
Is it acceptable to mention in the article that Woodrow Wilson was a filthy racist progressive reformer? He segregated federal agencies, believed "Birth of a Nation" was historically accurate, segregated the armed forces, and was a eugenicist. Is it fine to call him that in the article, or does it violate a rule? 108.0.244.168 (talk) 05:39, 31 July 2013 (UTC)


 * The article already has a long section on his views, Woodrow Wilson, which doesn't seem to pull any punches. Mikenorton (talk) 05:53, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't the word "filthy racist" is used.--KAVEBEAR (talk) 06:31, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
 * As opposed to "clean racist"? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 09:00, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The same OP asked about using Wikipedia to castigate Theodore Bilbo as a racist and returns here to ask the same question about Woodrow Wilson. Erecting an on-line Pillory for deceased US politicians makes for a silly agenda when there are so many well qualified serving ones. DreadRed (talk) 10:48, 31 July 2013 (UTC)


 * I doubt there is any "clean" (I mean open) racist national politician in the US. Can you cite any counter-example? OsmanRF34 (talk) 17:54, 31 July 2013 (UTC)


 * First off, Wilson did not really segregate the armed forces, as far as I can tell. And a form of eugenics-lite was thoroughly respectable in the U.S. in the 1910s, becoming quite mainstream during the 1920s, so I'm not sure that he went too much beyond widely-held positions of his time in that area (unlike Bilbo, who was far out of the mainstream).  Wilson had plenty of negatives without any need to depart from the facts... AnonMoos (talk) 11:20, 31 July 2013 (UTC)


 * I know that eugenic sterilization was considered acceptable at the time and the KKK tried to use a palatable message to recruit members. Was the incorrect belief that "Birth of a Nation" was historically accurate mainstream among people who were not segregationist Southern Democrats?  Was segregating federal organizations since 1863 considered mainstream, or just overlooked?  I know that Wilson did not go as far to propose Deportation to Africa like Bilbo.  What about his views on Reconstruction, with people like him referring to Northerners as "carpetbaggers"?   My question is how should the article be presented?  From a modern point of view or one at the time?  108.0.244.168 (talk) 21:03, 31 July 2013 (UTC)


 * The so-called Dunning School was coming in at that time... AnonMoos (talk) 22:43, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

What were the religious demographics of pre-communist China?
--220.255.141.7 (talk) 08:09, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia has an article about Religion in China. Demographic information earlier than 1949 is scarce but there are accounts from a christian perspective by  missionaries of  the conditions they encountered when promulgating their religion. DreadRed (talk) 10:18, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

A. W. Emerson
On a lot of the illustrations of Nathaniel Bright Emerson's book on Hawaiian mythology I see the name A. W. Emerson, here. Who is A. W. Emerson and is he related to Nathaniel?--KAVEBEAR (talk) 08:36, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Also is Nathaniel's father John S. Emerson who was born in Chester, New Hampshire, of any relation to Ralph Waldo Emerson given they were both from New England and Nathaniel served in the First Regiment of the Massachusetts Volunteer Infantry?--KAVEBEAR (talk) 08:42, 31 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Some information here "On January 22, 1885, in Honolulu Dr. Emerson married Dr. Sarah E. Pierce, also a physician. One son, Arthur W., was born to the Emersons."--Melburnian (talk) 09:09, 31 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Given John S. Emerson's ancestry here, if he was related to Ralph Waldo Emerson it was distantly, before their respective immigrant ancestors:
 * John S. Emerson5 (John4, Samuel3, Jonathan2, Michael1)
 * Ralph Waldo Emerson5 (William4, William3, Joseph2, Edward1) - Nunh-huh 22:20, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

Sandwich Island Gazette
Where can I find March 4, 1837 issue of the Sandwich Island Gazette?--KAVEBEAR (talk) 09:25, 31 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Libraries that have it. DreadRed (talk) 10:24, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Ghost gates
In Bangkok there is a neighbourhood known as "Ghost Gate". Its name derives from it being the former location of the city gate designated for the transport of dead bodies out of the city. (It was forbidden for the dead to be brought through other gates.) Ghost gates were found in several historic Tai cities, and were possibly taken after the Ghost Gate (East Gate) in Angkor Thom (although this account makes no mention of the name bearing historical significance). Does/did the practice of designating certain passageways for the dead exist in other cultures? --Paul_012 (talk) 09:48, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
 * If I understand your query correctly, Ancient Egypt would be a perfect fit, never in human history has so many resources and wealth been expended on what are basically tombs.  Market St.⧏  ⧐ Diamond Way  10:54, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

There was the London Necropolis Railway... AnonMoos (talk) 10:56, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

See also Lychgate, and note the mention of "lych ways" therein. Deor (talk) 12:23, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
 * It's been suggested that the Ness of Brodgar on Orkney was a symbolic passageway into the Ring of Brodgar, which belonged to the dead. HenryFlower 12:56, 31 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Corpse road. If you spend much time reading anything on English archaeology, rights of way, or structure of settlements, you end up with frequent (often mysterious) references to funeral roads. 86.164.26.17 (talk) 13:28, 31 July 2013 (UTC)


 * And for China, Spirit way. 184.147.137.9 (talk) 13:35, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Iran-Contra hearings
Where were the Iran-Contra (Iran-Contra, not Iran–Contra, anywhere except on Wikipedia) hearings held? Of course I'm sure they were in Washington, D.C., but I'm trying to figure out which government office building(s). 2001:18E8:2:1020:30F4:F313:6D39:FA4 (talk) 14:04, 31 July 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm pretty sure it was a public televised hearing held at the Congress. OsmanRF34 (talk) 17:47, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Not sure if other venues were added later,, but the hearings began in the Caucus Room of the Russell Senate Office Building and were to alternate between there and the House Judiciary Committee Room in the Rayburn House Office Building, per the first news story that I could find that actually mentioned the venues. (Article in the Milwaukee Journal here.) FlowerpotmaN &middot;( t ) 18:11, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Open slingshot bikinis
There are apparently open slingshot bikinis for women, that include a top, but it is so open that it leaves the breasts fully uncovered. Now I got to thinking, what's the point? The idea of a bikini top is to provide modesty, and support for the breasts. An open slingshot top provides neither. Why not just go topless for that matter? J I P &#124; Talk 15:18, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Could it be used as an actual slingshot? Til Eulenspiegel /talk/ 15:55, 31 July 2013 (UTC)


 * This is not a matter of modesty but avoiding arrest and prosecution for indecent exposure. Local laws on indecent exposure are probably based on nipple coverage. The coverage provided by the shape and size of any bikini-cut top - or, for that matter, crop-tops, evening gowns, and other outerwear - may expose much of the breast while still covering the nipple. You may compare this phenomenon with the furor in many jurisdictions where breastfeeding in public places is considered unacceptable by community or workplace standards. -- Deborahjay (talk) 16:13, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
 * But my point is, I have seen images of bikini tops that are so open that they indeed do not even cover the nipples. J I P  &#124; Talk 16:20, 31 July 2013 (UTC)


 * The point of such bikinis is to provide sexual titillation and arousement... modesty and/or support is distinctly not the point.  Blueboar (talk) 16:38, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
 * But then, why bother with a top at all? J I P  &#124; Talk 17:36, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Because being partially/minimally covered is often considered more arousing than outright nakedness.  Blueboar (talk) 23:29, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Because a little color and fabric here and there can accentuate natural curves and just add to the overall aesthetic. Dismas |(talk) 06:39, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Have you read the article "Monokini"? Gabbe (talk) 10:45, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

Who chooses the news?
What is the process of choosing what news hit the front page? I wonder if there aren't lots of Zimmerman's cases or  Marte's cases out there; but the press makes them special. Is there an invisible hand out there filtering news? OsmanRF34 (talk) 17:44, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Different newspapers or news outlets all have different processes for choosing what goes on their front page. The question is too vague to be answered.  Did you have a specific news outlet in mind?  Those who notice an invisible hand filtering news from one news outlet, can easily find one of several alternative news outlets that may be filtered by someone else - in about 300 different languages around the world. The idea of a global monopoly on all information is disproven every day by the existence of Web 2.0, but is often dreamed of by people who read pulp fiction. Til Eulenspiegel /talk/ 18:11, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
 * So, why do cases like Zimmerman or Marte Dalelv get reported by many of the news outlets in 300 languages? Isn't it perfectly possible that their back-end news agencies (like Reuters) are the ones in charge of what gets considered remarkable? Note: I have no doubt that the two cases that I cited above are something awful, but so are the other thousands of murders that happen. I get the impression we are living in a Matrix~made by humans. OsmanRF34 (talk) 18:23, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
 * This can be a problem when you have several news outlets controlled by the same interests. Yellow journalism is often considered a major cause of the 1898 Spanish-American War. Til Eulenspiegel /talk/ 18:29, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Remember, Communist countries like China or the former Soviet Union have a reputation for some of the most tightly controlled information outlets. I don't know if the Zimmerman case got reported at all in China, but it wouldn't surprise me if it did, because 1) when something is so prominent as to grip the US media for so many days, it becomes a more likely candidate as a global story and harder to ignore altogether, and 2) a case like that could easily be spun into the sort of highly negative view of the US that characterizes the "Little Red Book", that is still an official Chinese philosophy if I'm not mistaken. Til Eulenspiegel /talk/ 07:29, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
 * China is still officially Communist in a way, but the Little Red Book is strongly associated with the Cultural Revolution period, which is currently regarded with embarrassment. Anyway, Xinhua and several other PRC news sources are accessible online... AnonMoos (talk) 18:16, 1 August 2013 (UTC)


 * See Wikipedia talk:In the news and Wikipedia Signpost/Newsroom and https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinews:Newsroom.
 * —Wavelength (talk) 18:24, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Look up "institutional analysis, media". See also agenda-setting theory. -- Atethnekos (Discussion, Contributions) 18:32, 31 July 2013 (UTC)


 * This reminds me of the scene in The Odd Couple (the classic 1968 movie) where Gwendolyn (or maybe Cecily) is just getting to know Felix (Jack Lemmon) and asks him what he does. He tells her he writes news stories for television.  She then asks him "Where do you get your ideas from?", which leaves him momentarily lost for words.  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  20:28, 31 July 2013 (UTC)


 * See Deciding whether news is in the public interest.
 * —Wavelength (talk) 21:22, 31 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Search on the World Wide Web for news media control.
 * —Wavelength (talk) 23:03, 31 July 2013 (UTC)


 * The best thing I've read on this is Deciding what's news by Herbert Gans. It gives lots of examples, and there is no one answer. One example that I remember is that, for a sports story to make the front page of eg. Time magazine, they check whether it appeals to journalists who are known not to care about sport much. If it appeals to them, it's counted as more significant. Generally, editors play a strong role, but Rupert Murdoch is famous for a more hands-on approach. You might also be interested in reading Edward Jay Epstein's News from Nowhere, not to be confused with the science-fiction book of the same name. It isn't as substantial as Gans' book, and focuses on a particular theme that gets hammered throughout. In Epstein's view, the news is basically a kind of production line, driven by efficiency rather than quality. In answer to your question about specific cases, some of them catch the public imagination. Journalists do spend a lot of time reading other newspapers and so on, and many stories get going this way. No one wants to be left out, eg. by thinking this Edward Snowden thing might turn out to be a beat-up. No one can afford to be left out of a "watercooler" topic. IBE (talk) 04:32, 1 August 2013 (UTC)


 * It should always be remembered that the primary aim of a newspaper is to sell advertising so that its proprietor makes money. News items will be chosen to satisfy the same demographic(s) that the paper's advertising is aimed at. Hailing as I do from the same city as one Rupert Murdoch, I cannot also ignore the "suggestion" that newspaper proprietors sometimes go out of their way to influence political views among their readers, sometimes for commercial and sometimes for personal, idealistic reasons. HiLo48 (talk) 08:03, 1 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Balloon Boy may answer some questions. InedibleHulk (talk) 08:54, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

Name the young adult sci-fi series!
Hi. I remember reading some books when I was quite young, around 1986 or so, but I can't remember the author or any titles, and can't work out any useful terms to google. I can, however, describe the plot and setting, and maybe somebody else also remembers them.

A prison-spaceship from Earth (I think) crash-lands on a planet somewhere, and most of the cargo of prisoners in suspended animation do not survive the crash. The book follows one survivor as he finds ways to live on this new world. At some point, he meets up with another survivor, this one female, and there's a third survivor who serves as an antagonist.

That's really all I remember. There were at least three novels, I think, in this series. Does anyone have any idea? Thanks in advance. -GTBacchus(talk) 20:29, 31 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Could it be Hard Crash or Prophet's Power  , based on the Unreal game? It's from the late '90s and there seems to be only two books, though. Sjö (talk) 12:06, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I definitely read these during the Reagan years, so no. :/ -GTBacchus(talk) 00:42, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Likely to be Exiles of Colsec? Thom2002 (talk) 20:09, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
 * PS The two sequels were The Caves of Klydor (1984) and Colsec Rebellion (1985). The author was Canadian Douglas Hill. A plot summary of the first book matching your description can be found here: Thom2002 (talk) 20:23, 4 August 2013 (UTC)