Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2013 June 4

= June 4 =

Department of Mathematics and Mechanics pure Russian?
Are "Department of Mathematics and Mechanics" is a unique feature of Russian universities or is there examples around the globe. Since most universities has separate department for Mathematics and other for Physics and Mechanics is covered in the Physics department. If my assumption is true then I will appreciate other examples of some other such unique university departments. Solomon7968 (talk) 00:41, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
 * North Carolina State University has a College of Physical and Mathematical sciences] which combines pure math with other physical sciences like Physics and Chemistry. -- Jayron  32  01:09, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

@User:Jayron32 a news to me but is there any specific reason why Russian universities in general use the term Department of "Mathematics and Mechanics"? Thanks. Solomon7968 (talk) 05:17, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Do such Russian schools have a separate Physics department or is "Mechanics" being translated for what is called "physics" in English? -- Jayron  32  05:20, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Do not actually get your point. Explanation needed and see this: MSU Faculty of Mechanics and Mathematics and this www.math.spbu.ru/en/‎ Solomon7968 (talk) 05:29, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm not making a point, I'm asking a question to seek information on a subject I don't know about as I don't speak Russian. My question is thus: Do Russian schools that have a department titled "Department of Mathematics and Mechanics" have a separate department of Physics, or is that part of the "Department of Mathematics and Mechanics"?  -- Jayron  32  05:30, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Could you provide citations or examples, and are you sure they're departments? Because as Jayron32 notes SPBU and MSU strongly indicate that these are faculties containing departments.  Fifelfoo (talk) 05:34, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Actually I am from India but while searching for some references I saw this Unique Russian character. And do not get pe wrong User:Jayron32 my meaning of "point" is different than the Native English meaning. Thanks. Solomon7968 (talk) 05:39, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I still haven't had my question answered. I'd like to provide you with a rational answer, but you haven't answered my question regarding the standard organization of Russian university departments with regards to mathematics, physics, and other physical sciences.  -- Jayron  32  05:40, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I am from India hence different to answer about Russia, added I have 2 years left to go to college. Added can you explain me what is the difference between "Faculty" and "Department". I am confused with the two words. Solomon7968 (talk) 05:49, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Actually, distinct from Fifelfoo, I'm not sure there is much of a difference. There is a very wide variation in the terminology used by institutes of learning to differentiate their structure.  One such organization may organize itself as "University broken into colleges broken into departments" while another may use entirely different names for analogous structures (That is what one institution may call a "College" another may call a "School" and yet another may call a "Department" or a "Faculty").  There's no universal language to that works world-wide.  If you add onto this the additional complication of translating from another language into English and trying to decide that some particular Russian word should mean "faculty" or "school" or "college" or "department" or whatever else, when English-language schools in various English-speaking countries can't even come to an agreement amongst themselves what they mean is the crux of the problem.  So, don't try to parse the difference between "department" and "faculty" and "school" or whetever other term a particular institution uses.  The question at hand is "how do are science and mathematics subjects organized at different institutions."  Not "what do different institutions call their various subdivisions,"  These are different questions, and the first seems far more interesting based on your initial question than the second.  -- Jayron  32  05:58, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Nice answer Jayron32, it is not necessary that Department be a subset of Faculty. An additional question are there any "School" concept in UK. I guess it is pure American. Am I right? Solomon7968 (talk) 06:05, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
 * It's just WAY too variable to give a universal answer. There's the institution itself, like say Harvard University or the University of Delaware or North Carolina State University.  Each of these institutions is broken up into smaller subdivisions, but how they divide up is VERY variable.  For example, Harvard has a very "English" style organization, where students are organized into "Houses", while the teaching staff is organized into "Faculties".  The University of Delaware, on the other hand, is primarily organized along subject lines, the entire University is divided up into primary subdivisions called "Colleges", such as the "College of Arts and Sciences", the "College of Business and Economics" and so forth.  Within each "College" are smaller "Departments" which are organized along more strict subjects.  For example, the "College of Arts and Sciences" at the University of Delaware has a "Department of Physics", a "Department of History", and so on, while the "College of Business and Economics" has a "Department of Business Administration" a "Department of Accounting" etc.  NCSU has a completely different organization.  Whereas Delaware has most of its physical sciences, mathematics, and liberal arts all under the "College of Arts and Sciences" banner, NCSU has itself organized into separate "College of Agricultural and Life Sciences", "College of Physical and Mathematical Sciences", "College of Humanities and Social Sciences", and again within each of those colleges are distinct departments for each subject matter, so the "Department of Biology" and the "Department of Animal Science" falls under the "College of Agricultural and Life Sciences", while the "Department of Physics" and the "Department of Chemistry" fall under the "College of Physical and Mathematical Sciences".  At Delaware, three of these (Biology, Physics, and Chemistry) are part of the "College of Arts and Sciences" while the other was under the "College of Agriculture and Natural Resources".  I suppose this is a long way of explaining that, in the United States at least, there is no universal, or even "common", way of organizing a University, and that each particular university will have its own way of organizing itself, and you can't really draw any greater meaning or system out of it.  There is no system.  -- Jayron  32  06:25, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Given the recent wealth amassed by some Indians many businessman are investing money to universities and the thing called "Buisness School" is mushrooming. But leave aside the tangential question if you take a look at MSU history many standalone departments (faculty?) have grown to become standalone institutions. But the historic Department (faculty?) of "Mathematics and Mechanics" has remain. Not jumping to conclusions but it is surely no coincident. Solomon7968 (talk) 06:32, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, I think the naming is felicitous and insightful. That 19th century thinker, Gauss, famously enough, considered geometry, because of the possibility of Non-Euclidean geometry (which he kept for many years to himself) as "like mechanics", somehow empirical, and so called poor honest Kant, Boeotian. Thinking deeper, that later, 18th century thinker Clifford Truesdell, thought that mechanics should be considered as mathematics, like geometry. Perhaps the forms of thought are stored (uniquely?) in the language of Russian academic bureaucracy? :-)John Z (talk) 10:00, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
 * @User:John Z Your analysis is very insightful. Solomon7968 (talk) 10:46, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

To give a general answer, Australian academic organisation used to be disciplinary but is now managerially functionalist based on Government defined clusters and remnants of disciplinarity. The former means that all scholars who do X type of research organise as X Department / School (more later). The latter means that everyone with an EFTSU Banding (ie: revenue generation capacity) of W who used to be around X or Y or Z is now in the School of V. This has involved a shift from 5-10 person (Full-time permanent academic staff) work units to 50-100 person work units. Formerly, 5-10 person work units used to be organised in higher level units often called Faculties. Faculties were established at law or by University declaration, and were difficult to disestablish. Departments were much more loosely established. Further, the State (Cwth and State) had strong opinions on what kind of Faculties ought to exist, and represented these views through University Councils or Boards or Senates that were dominated by government appointees. This has changed. Peak University governance is now dominated by management in a very literal sense that almost no appointees have views on public management outside of a corporatist or New Public Management model. The organisation of sub-divisions now follows, broadly, one of two moulds: University -> Colleges / Divisions -> Schools -> Departments / Disciplines. Schools may also be independent entities, typically business. OR University -> Faculty -> School / Department -> Sub-Department / Discipline. Schools may also be independent entities, typically business. The lowest level organisation generally does not exist. Degrees are typically awarded by Faculty level bodies, excepting Doctorates which are awarded by the University. Faculties tend to control Degree level pedagogy, Schools tend to control "Major" or course pedagogy. Australian degrees tend to be of the form B[Close area of interest] (Detailed major), such as BEng (Mech) or BComm (Micro). School and Department titles used to make sense, "Department of Modern History; School of Classics" now they're merely bureaucratic, "School of Humanities and Geography" "School of Social Sciences and English" etc. The current trend is for large lowest level units (Schools, 100 FTE) to spawn sub-units with no budget authority, but with a day to day purpose of organising work. Ie: "Those guys and gals over there who actually teach English in the School of Social Sciences and English." Fifelfoo (talk) 23:46, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Name of a particular artist
I'm trying to remember the name of an artist who painted young women/girls in sort of classical clothes with flowered garlands in their hair and the work was sort of ornate or overly wrought. I believe he painted in the early 20th century, in Italy, and his name was something like Altadema. I remember his first and last names as unusual and complicated. Can anyone help?173.88.224.244 (talk) 02:52, 4 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Alma Tadema... -- AnonMoos (talk) 05:43, 4 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Thank you very much to the person who responded with the name of the artist, Alma Tadema. My appreciation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.88.224.244 (talk) 14:33, 4 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Note: the message above was placed in a separate section of its own -- I have moved it here. Looie496 (talk) 14:42, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Sahara
Moved to Reference_desk/Science. OsmanRF34 (talk) 13:21, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

Background - Before UK Children Act 1989?
Hello,

Does anyone have any ideas of what was in place before the Children Act 1989? What powers did police previously have with regards to protecting children?

Thanks, ツStacey (talk) 10:32, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

P.S. This related to the Police protection provisions if that helps! =) ツStacey (talk) 11:44, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
 * This simplified timeline may help. Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:46, 4 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Wow! That was fast! Thanks very much.. thats a good starting point for me to do some research. Thanks again, ツStacey (talk) 11:49, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Offertory plates
Can non-Christians tithe or put something in the offertory plate for the pastor who has given an agreeable or attractive sermon, like a tip to a food server in the restaurant? Or is tithing associated with giving alms through the church by faithful church members? Sneazy (talk) 16:39, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
 * No mainline Christian church in existence will refuse your money. No one asks those questions, or even asks if you are a non-Christian when you walk in and sit down.  You're allowed of your own free will to put money in the offering plate or not as your own conscience leads you, and no one asks questions of your beliefs or motives when doing so.  -- Jayron  32  16:43, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
 * You said mainline. Sneazy (talk) 16:46, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Let me rephrase that. I can't imagine any church in existance at all, but put a qualifier in their to hedge my bets that someone could locate one Christian church in the world that operated differently.  I don't expect there to be any such Christian church in the entire world that does operate differently, but it is entirely possible that someone may find one.  Ignore that word if it complicates your understanding.  No church asks your motives for attending their services or for giving money.  Your free to come and go as you please, to give or not give as you please, and no one will ever ask you about your motives one way or the other.  Ever. -- Jayron  32  16:49, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Some churches have envelopes available in the pews so you can hide the amount of your donation from your neighbors. These often have a few preprinted checkboxes for designated charities but often have a blank line where you could write-in "for pastor" or some such thing. Rmhermen (talk) 20:15, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Giving is normally seen as a duty of the membership, but additional giving is normally seen as something that's up to any individual; if you're a visitor at a church service (regardless of your beliefs), anything you'd put in the plate would be seen as an unexpected generosity at any church I can think of. 2001:18E8:2:1020:933:573C:3F71:6541 (talk) 15:33, 5 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Agree with the above. See the Lesson of the widow's mite for a Biblical context. Alansplodge (talk) 17:42, 5 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Mostly agree with the above. Although the substance of the answer seems correct, I have heard of churches where donation is a very public thing, e.g. I think I've heard of it happening in Singapore. Someone might chip in and correct me, or add to this. That doesn't mean they force you to donate or not (which was the substance of the question), but it would create a fair amount of social pressure. The story was that people have seen churches where they announce your name, and you go up in front of everyone and state how much you are putting in. On the exact question itself, if you are concerned about what is proper, ask the minister or a member of the congregation. IBE (talk) 00:14, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't doubt what you say, but that would be very exceptional, especially amongst "mainstream" churches. Alansplodge (talk) 13:31, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

King of Ternacle
Why was the King of Aragon called the King of Ternacle?--The Emperor&#39;s New Spy (talk) 17:43, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
 * One name of Sicily is Trinacria, which is sometimes written as Ternacle, especially in French sources. The term is connected to the three legged Triskelion commonly used as a symbol for Sicily.  Sicily was long part of the Crown of Aragon.  Ternacle/Trinacria is sometimes used to distinguish insular Sicily (see Kingdom of Sicily) from mainland Sicily (i.e. the Kingdom of Naples).  The existence of two parallel Kingdoms of Sicily is why the later kingdom was called the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies).  -- Jayron  32  18:00, 4 June 2013 (UTC)