Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2013 October 19

= October 19 =

Chinese zodiac
What is the oldest artifact or physical object (not written references) which archaeologists have found linked to the Chinese zodiacs? And finally what was the oldest written reference?--The Emperor&#39;s New Spy (talk) 01:56, 19 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Some general timeframes to start: Metropolitan Museum of Art says, describing a 8th century set in their collection, "The association of the cycle of twelve divisions with a set of animals occurred by the third century B.C. There is no evidence of the pictorial representation of the set before the sixth century, when images of the animals began to appear on the backs of bronze mirrors and on the walls of tomb chambers. During the Tang dynasty (618–907), when burial customs were most elaborate, sets of pottery figures in official robes with heads of the calendrical animals were commonly used in burials." I'm guessing the 3rd century BC part must be by a written reference. 184.147.121.62 (talk) 21:11, 19 October 2013 (UTC)


 * A second reference from the Metropolitan Museum of Art in this pdf answers your first question: "By the fourth century B.C. the animals were well established in Chinese thought ... Although references to the duodenary appear early in Chinese history, images of the twelve animals are first found in ceiling paintings from a tomb dated 533." 184.147.121.62 (talk) 21:21, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Do we have images of said mirrors or tombs?--The Emperor&#39;s New Spy (talk) 03:26, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

Use of OL in German politics
I found this page on the German version: de:Mittelherwigsdorf while trying to find out more about this area and surrounding villages. I didn't find any German equivelant to the reference desk so I'm asking here: What does OL stand for in the Kommunalwahl 2009 box? I tried checking the source but it doesn't work Munci (talk) 10:17, 19 October 2013 (UTC)


 * The German reference desk is called Auskunft. "OL" seems to be "Offene Liste" (open list), see here. I haven't seen that before, but it's clearly a list of candidates not tied to any of the traditional parties. --Wrongfilter (talk) 11:31, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Try this link instead of the link in the box. Note that "OL" in the box is linked to de:Offene Liste. It could have been a list with candidates of the left-wing-party The Left (Germany) and others. --Pp.paul.4 (talk) 14:37, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much both of you. I can try going to Auskunft next time I've got a German question. Munci (talk) 07:31, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

Time limits on conditions in wills
Under the common law, is there a time limit within which any conditions must be fulfilled; and if so, vaguely what is the time limit? I've enjoyed The Wabbit Who Came to Supper since I was little, but even when I was in elementary school, I wondered how long Elmer would have to wait until the (ultimately non-existent) money was his and he would be able to go back hunting wabbits. I'm left wondering whether some jurisdictions would treat the will as a contract, so the executor might sue Elmer to recover the -$1.98 inheritance no matter how many years he waited until hunting wabbits. I know that some jurisdictions permit suits (presumably for contract-breaking) decades after the contract is executed, e.g. when St Louis was sued for title to the Old Courthouse more than a century after they obtained the land, because they ceased using the property under the condition by which it was granted. But without any legal background, I'm left wondering how much (if any) similarity there would be between conditions in wills and conditions in normal contracts. Nyttend (talk) 20:50, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
 * It's liable to vary from state to state. Although not precisely a will, the Ralph Engelstad situation regarding his gift-with-strings-attached arena in North Dakota may be interesting. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 22:39, 19 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Rule against perpetuities... -- AnonMoos (talk) 01:20, 20 October 2013 (UTC)