Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2013 October 9

= October 9 =

What about Peake?
I've been exploring areas around Chessie (railroad mascot). On the B&O Railroad Museum online gift store, there's a plush Chessie. On another website involving Chessie, there's a plush "Nip" and a plush "Tuck". But I don't find anything regarding "Peake". What did he look like? Could anyone help, please? Thank you.142.255.103.121 (talk) 07:52, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I googled around some seems there is a historical society with lots of pictures & merch. here,  here & here there are tons more under search. The society page is here.  Market St.⧏  ⧐ Diamond Way   07:59, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, but I was hoping to find a plush "Peake", actually.142.255.103.121 (talk) 18:27, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Very true, after dozens of search result sites I lost track of that, I did the obligatory Google images and Ebay searches, nothing at all is turning up for Peake plushes. Not tons of experience in these type of searches so another editor may know of sites/portals that could give more detailed results than a google or google image query.  Market St.⧏  ⧐ Diamond Way  19:10, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

Alright. But judging what you provided me, can you do so with the description of Peake, please? Thank you.142.255.103.121 (talk) 04:43, 10 October 2013 (UTC)
 * You're asking to run the searches again for "plushes"? Not sure what you're asking, but in my 2nd response I was saying that I did go back with Ebay, Google and Google images and run those search combos, nothing at all is turning up. There could be other editors with knowledge of some other search portal or resource for a search but I am unaware of any.  Market St.⧏  ⧐ Diamond Way  14:07, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

No, I'm not asking to run the searches again for "plushes". What I'm trying to ask is with everything you provided me on Peake, can you go back over them and suggest to me what color of plush cat to buy and name "Peake", please? Thank you.142.255.103.121 (talk) 03:14, 11 October 2013 (UTC)
 * From my vantage point Peake is greyish/dark brown with some black vertical striping that is splotchy, a black line running along its back with white tuffs fur on the upper chest, chin, cheeks & above the nose in a line to the forehead, tho I doubt those are set in stone & any greyish/dark brown cat with some black splotches would fit the bill. I'm just going off the images I linked to above from the search site I linked to.  Market St.⧏  ⧐ Diamond Way   03:58, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Thank you so much.142.255.103.121 (talk) 06:02, 11 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Your welcome, glad I could help, btw I never even knew these characters existed & always thought the Chessie logo was a cat on the prowl not a cat on the nap. ;-).  Market St.⧏  ⧐ Diamond Way  17:12, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Recommendations for graphic novels
I recently read Alan Moore's Watchmen and enjoyed it very much. Can anyone provide me with recommendations for other graphic novels in a similar vein? Obviously Moore's own V for Vendetta is one. I would like to read graphic novels which are particularly literate in tone and formally experimental in style, like Watchmen is. Thanks, --Viennese Waltz 13:28, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
 * It sounds like you'd like some other titles in DC's Vertigo imprint, which I believe publishes both of the works you mentioned. You mention "literate" and "experimental;" it's hard to combine those two traits much better than Moore does it, but I'd recommend Transmetropolitan by Warren Ellis (literate; imagine, among other things, Douglas Adams writing a fictionalized biography of Hunter S. Thompson in the style of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy and you'll start to approach Transmet), though perhaps relatively straightforward in its pacing.  I also enjoyed Grant Morrison's The Invisibles.  Morrison definitely falls on the "experimental" side of things and clearly has a lot of fun doing it (while using enough arcane sources to keep you busy at the library for days afterward if you really get into it).  The first thing anyone will recommend to you, however, is Neil Gaiman's The Sandman, which would be worth buying even if it only consisted of Dave McKean's cover art (but it turns out there are complex and interesting stories there, too, huh).  Other than Watchmen, or maybe American Splendor, Sandman is probably the most recognized English-language comic series, and for good reason.  If you want to get away from heroes and gods, you might check out the work of Daniel Clowes (other editors can recommend more authors on that side of the literary spectrum).  Happy reading!   ☯.Zen  Swashbuckler  .☠  14:51, 9 October 2013 (UTC)


 * What do we call a graphic novel that contains what the media loves to call "graphic violence" - a "graphic graphic novel"? --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  20:27, 9 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Not to mention back in the eighties and nineties, before the idea of comics for anyone other than children was really established in the popular imagination, you had formulations like "adult graphic novel" or "graphic novel for adults" which made them sound absolutely filthy. Sadly, very few of them were. --Nicknack009 (talk) 15:56, 10 October 2013 (UTC)


 * McCloud Understanding Comics, Reinventing Comics, and Zot! (Wasn't it? Hard to find.).  Satrapi Persepolis and Persepolis 2.  Spiegelman Maus.  Spiegelman etal RAW.  Fleener Life of the Party.  Sacco Safe Area Gorazde.  Moebius Madwoman of the Sacred Heart.  Miller 300 Sin City (Collected).  Various, Lucifer (Trust me on this one, particularly the Eileen Belloc subplot).  Lutes Berlin.  Fifelfoo (talk) 22:35, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Let me link: Understanding Comics, Reinventing Comics, Zot!. Persepolis (graphic novel) and Persepolis 2, Maus, RAW (magazine), Life of the Party, Safe Area Gorazde, Madwoman of the Sacred Heart, 300 (graphic novel), Sin City, Lucifer (DC comics), Berlin (comic). --Error (talk) 23:16, 9 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Keeping with Moore, The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. I don't remember if Miller's Ronin (graphic novel) is what you want.
 * Thanks for the tips from my side as well.
 * --Error (talk) 23:16, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the recommendations all. -Viennese Waltz 07:14, 10 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Cages by Dave McKean, Eddie Campbell's Alec stories, Moore and Campbell's From Hell, The Wrong Place by Brecht Evens, and Gemma Bovery and Tamara Drewe by Posy Simmonds are some graphic novels with literary and formalist ambitions that spring to mind. I'd dispute the inclusion of 300 and Sin City - regardless of how good they are, they're pulp rather than literary in style. Straddling literary and pulp, I'd suggest The Adventures of Luther Arkwright by Bryan Talbot and Button Man by John Wagner and Arthur Ranson. McCloud's Understanding Comics and its follow-ups may be formalist, but are academic rather than literary - they're explorations of comics form and theory. --Nicknack009 (talk) 12:48, 10 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I can't make any recommendations, since I don't follow the media. But I will say I broke up with someone for liking From Hell. μηδείς (talk) 00:48, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

A Rhetorics introduction textbook?
I am looking for a good Introduction textbook in Rhetorics (Something that covers the topic generally). it should be a cherished text in the academic world, admired, and chosen by the most active and honored institutions. you have my deep thanks ! Ben-Natan (talk) 21:38, 9 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Rhetorics is a pretty broad topic, it would be difficult to come up with one, unless you tell us what you want to learn exactly.
 * On the other hand, many "active and honored institutions" have online syllabus of their courses, you could check these for a literature list. OsmanRF34 (talk) 22:12, 9 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Note that "rhetorics" is a rather archaic word. You might have better luck looking for "persuasive writing" or "persuasive speaking".  How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie is one such book.  As I recall, Ben, constantly repeating your target's name, Ben, is a way, Ben, to make them feel like you are their friend, Ben. :-) StuRat (talk) 12:50, 10 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Agreed with the views already expressed, however you may find a links like this useful. There are also books & websites on famous quotations, toastmaster guides & even the presidency project with transcripts of all speeches & papers going back in time.  Market St.⧏  ⧐ Diamond Way   14:13, 10 October 2013 (UTC)


 * I have never come across any such thing, and I would be interested if there were a good one. Rhetorics nowadays is divided into grammar, composition, logic and so on.  Rhetorics also depends on having an ideology--without one there's really no framework within which to argue from.  Ayn Rand's disciple Leonard Peikoff has just public a book of rhetoric called "Objectively Speaking".  He's got a few gems, such as when to know not to argue with someone, and an explanation as to why there is no such thing as a perfect, unanswerable argument.  But the book is the transcription of a recorded lecture, and it presumes you already know a lot about Rand's philosophy.  I can't recommend it except as a matter of curiosity to people who are already fans of Rand's. μηδείς (talk) 00:40, 13 October 2013 (UTC)