Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2014 April 16

= April 16 =

Hatta and Dubai
I've been wondering recently how Hatta came to be an exclave of Dubai. What is it that caused the two regions to be linked together? I would greatly appreciate any information you might have. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.56.13.119 (talk) 04:27, 16 April 2014 (UTC)


 * The internal boundaries of the UAE are quite complicated. I've found one English-language reference detailing how them came about - this doctoral thesis, "The Federal Boundaries of the United Arab Emirates". It notes "All but two of the seven Emirates lack territorial homogeneity. Only Abu Dhabi and Umm al-Quwain consist of one integral unit . The other five Emirates have at least one enclave of territory entirely surrounded by territory over which they have no jurisdiction." (p. 214).


 * This complicated arrangement arose primarily from the need to define boundaries between the Emirates to allow granting of oil exploration concessions. Until the early 20th century, land borders between the Emirates did not exist in the traditional Western sense. Each Emirate had towns, villages, wadis, etc., that it controlled, but the open desert between wasn't divvied up because it had no value to them. That changed with the discovery of oil and the profits to be had from it, which, my source notes, "concentrated their minds wonderfully on demarcation of boundaries between the Emirates." (p. 341) When these boundaries were drawn, the results often cut off remote towns and villages from their respective capitals.


 * In the specific case of Hatta, during the 1870s it was given to the Ruler of Dubai by the Sultan of Muscat. (Simultaneously, the adjacent village of Masfut was given to the Ruler of Buraimi in Oman; it subsequently passed to the Emirate of Ajman and is now an enclave as well.) At the time, it was known as the village of "Hajarain" or "Hijrain"; Hatta was the name of the wadi where it was situated. (p. 258).


 * Hope that helps. I suppose I should update the article now. - EronTalk 20:21, 17 April 2014 (UTC)


 * This is very good information. Thanks for going the extra mile. I really appreciate it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.56.13.119 (talk) 06:56, 19 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Glad to be of assistance. - EronTalk 18:28, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

Mid Atlantic states geography
What are the boundaries of the lower Delaware Valley? Not being from the area I don't know. Where does the upper Delaware Valley begin? Is there a middle Delaware Valley? Also, I've long wondered why it's empty fields between Trenton and the "Brunswicks" on the majorest of major highways (NJ Turnpike) when NYC's suburbs extend at least twice as far in CT, Long Island, and along the Garden State Parkway. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 07:47, 16 April 2014 (UTC)


 * I presume your header is short for "mid Atlantic coast" (of the United States) (of America). To the rest of the world, the "mid Atlantic" is a point in the middle of an ocean, by definition a long way from any land.   --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  07:59, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm from the US and I also initially thought that this might concern Bermuda and the Azores going by the heading. Dismas |(talk) 08:05, 16 April 2014 (UTC)


 * As for the Middle Delaware Valley, there are a number of GHits for that phrase including a publication from the Delaware Valley Ornithological Club about the "Birds of the Middle Delaware Valley". So, it seems that some people think there is such a place. That said, our article on the Delaware River refers to a Central Delaware Valley. Dismas |(talk) 08:01, 16 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Regarding why areas between New York and Trenton along the Turnpike seem to be underpopulated, much of that land is the New Jersey Meadowlands. -- Jayron  32  10:34, 16 April 2014 (UTC)


 * No, the Meadowlands are in North Jersey, well to the north of the stretch between the Brunswicks and Trenton. The latter stretch is empty mainly because it hasn't been economical to develop.  On the one hand, it is relatively valuable farmland, making land costs higher than in less fertile regions.  On the other hand, it lacks coastal amenities.  The main reason that development extends so much farther from Manhattan and other centers of employment on Long Island and the Jersey Shore is that people are willing to put up with a long commute to live near the shore. (The coast of southwestern Connecticut is heavily developed not only because of its coastal location but also because it includes urban areas that were formerly independent urban areas and that remain centers of employment and whose suburban sprawl has merged with that of New York.) People don't want to commute as far to live in a flat, inland region without good access to coastal or urban amenities. Marco polo (talk) 14:19, 16 April 2014 (UTC)


 * The Mid-Atlantic states are also known locally as "the Mid-Atlantic", as our article points out. While this is inconvenient for people outside the region, for whom the term might suggest a deep-sea location, the term is not incorrect.  Our article Delaware River suggests that the lower Delaware Valley, as a physical geographic region, is the part of the valley below the falls at Trenton.  The physical geographic region would encompass the watershed of the Delaware and its tributaries below this point.  The term Delaware Valley is often used to refer to metropolitan Philadelphia, which might include areas outside the watershed of the Delaware, but which is roughly coterminous with the lower Delaware Valley as a physical geographic region.  According to our article on the river, the middle Delaware Valley is the watershed of the Delaware including the watershed of the Lehigh and all other tributaries entering the river between the Lehigh and the falls at Trenton.  The upper Delaware Valley would be the watershed of the Delaware above the Lehigh.  Marco polo (talk) 14:30, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Most enlightening, thank you Marco Polo. --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  20:47, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

Added to question header, it was completely confusing before. Fgf10 (talk) 14:46, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

Corrected header to conform to general usage (question not specific to the coast). Marco polo (talk) 19:12, 16 April 2014 (UTC)


 * This discussion reminds me of the aggressive responses I got a few months ago when I thought it made sense to remove the capital letters from the term East Coast in a sentence referring to that part of the USA. Obviously many countries have an east coast, but America has an East Coast. HiLo48 (talk) 23:12, 16 April 2014 (UTC)


 * According to the National Park Service,, the Middle Delaware is the 40 mile stretch north of the Delaware Water Gap. The Upper Delaware being north of that, and Lower Delaware south. That makes the Lower Delaware most of the border between New Jersey and Pennsylvania. As far as the Park Service is concerned, the Lower Delaware doesn't even reach to Philadelphia. Or at least the Lower Delaware National Wild and Scenic River. But as Marco polo pointed out, our Delaware River page suggests the Lower Delaware starts at Trenton, where the river begins to become an estuary. Then there's the difference between the river itself and the Delaware Valley. As far as I can tell, the meaning of all these terms varies depending on context. Sometimes in historical contexts you come across the term "Lower Delaware" for what is now the state of Delaware—especially in the context of William Penn's claim to the region. Pfly (talk) 00:51, 17 April 2014 (UTC)