Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2014 August 29

= August 29 =

Black and Jew arguing
Many years ago, I remember reading a novel or story or play where an African American man and a Jewish man were having a heated debate over whose people had been treated worse throughout history. The tone was broadly comedic, even somewhat silly, with each man trying to "one up" the other one. The only specific line I remember was when the Jewish guy says something like "my people were oppressed by the Tsar Nicholas!" or something along those lines.

I'm thinking it might have been in a novel by Ishmael Reed and I googled it but didn't find what I was looking for. Admittedly, I wasn't quite sure what to Google, exactly.

Anyone know what book this scene is from?--Jerk of Thrones (talk) 06:32, 29 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Not entire sure, but this sounds vaguely like the barbershop scenes from Coming to America. -- Jayron  32  09:36, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

Fall of the Roman Empire Time Period
At what time period do people generally mean when they refer to the "Fall of the Roman Empire"? Is it the time period during which the Eastern half and Western half split? Is it the time period during which the Eastern half of the Roman Empire became the Byzantine Empire? Is it the time period during which the Eastern (Byzantine) Empire fell to the Ottoman Turks? And why does this page say that the East is considered to be more civilized simply because it's influenced by Greek culture? What would make the non-Hellenized Western culture uncivilized? Are Western countries "civilized" now compared to the Eastern European countries? 65.24.105.132 (talk) 11:02, 29 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Wow. You ask a lot of questions.  Lets start from the beginning.  1) Usually, they mean the Fall of the Western Roman Empire to Odoacer in 476 when they speak of the "fall of the Roman Empire".  This sort of thinking dates to The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, by Edward Gibbon, often regarded as the seminal work of Western History.  Whether or not this perspective is correct is a debate for another day, but Gibbon is the source of that thinking.  2) The dating of the "start" of the Byzantine Empire is not nailed down to one specific date.  The fall of the Western half of the empire is commonly used, but other times cited as the transition from the "Eastern Roman Empire" to the "Byzantine" empire include the rule of Heraclius, who reorganized the Eastern state in a way that some consider a fundamental break from the older Roman empire; or occasionally the rule of Justinian I, who is sometimes consider the "Last of the Roman Emperors".  It should be noted that this sort of thinking; that the Byzantine Empire was somehow a fundamentally different state than the Roman Empire, exists only in relatively modern historiography.  The Byzantine Empire never called itself that.  It just called itself the Roman Empire. 3) I have no idea where you are reading that the Byzantine Empire was more "civilized"  I did a text search, and the word civilized never once appears in the text of the article you linked.  If you could quote the sentence or direct us to the passage you are referring to, that'd be great!  4) Regarding western vs. eastern cultures and being "civilized"; I'm not sure there is any way to answer that question in the guise of the mission of this desk.  -- Jayron  32  11:34, 29 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Never mind that part. I thought I saw the term. I may have misread it. No idea how the term "civilized" popped up when it should have meant "Hellenized". 65.24.105.132 (talk) 11:50, 29 August 2014 (UTC)
 * It's easy to find "more populous and more prosperous" for the eastern half of the Empire - which is one of the reasons Diocletian picked the eastern half and Constantine ruled from Constantinople, not from Rome. The West also suffered more from "barbarian incursions" - the major conflict in the East was with Persia, also a relatively developed power. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 12:46, 29 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but that's like ancient history. Somehow, later in history, the West gained a lot of power and spread across the world, including the Americas. The United States and the Soviet Union were considered "superpowers" during the Cold War. I remember watching a funny movie clip "Duck And Cover (1951)" in high school. The '50s must have been a frightening era. 65.24.105.132 (talk) 13:21, 29 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Not so much. The threat was more theoretical than real. It became a little too real during the Cuban Missile Crisis. Actually, McCarthyism was a much worse threat to us Americans. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 13:54, 29 August 2014 (UTC)
 * It wasn't the Western Romans that developed the cultures that spread across the world. It was the Western Germanic peoples, among others.  While modern cultures represent an admixture of many ancient cultures (Germanic, Latin, Arabic, Greek, Celtic, etc.) at least three of the major world powers in the early modern period (France, Germany, and England) grew out of ancient Germanic peoples (The Franks, Anglo-Saxons, Goths, etc.) and others (Spain, Portugal, etc.) had considerable influence from same (Esp. Visigoths).  It wasn't the Romans per se that led to these developments among the west.  There are certain theses among historians that having a large, centralized, cohesive imperial state leads to cultural and scientific stagnation, and that conflict among smaller states drives innovation and exploration.  If you look at Western Europe, it was among the least cohesive parts of the world for much of the middle ages and early modern period.  There's one train of thought that said it was exactly this lack of cohesion that led to it becoming the hegemony that ruled the world during the modern period.  -- Jayron  32  14:30, 29 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Cool. Jayron32, can you cite a source to the part where you said "There are certain theses among historians...". I would like to look them up myself. Sounds interesting. 65.24.105.132 (talk) 19:45, 29 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I might be mistaken, but I think this is in Guns, Germs, and Steel by Jared Diamond - a good book to have read anyways, although it tends to piss off the social science people no end ;-). --Stephan Schulz (talk) 22:16, 29 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I believe that one does. I think Charles C. Mann also touches on it briefly in his books 1491 and 1493.  And I know that Niall Ferguson's book Civilization makes the case rather prominently.  -- Jayron  32  22:43, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

65.24.105.132 -- people could have different times in mind even if they confined themselves to just the Western Roman empire. The empire went through a long "time of troubles" in the 3rd century A.D. (see Crisis of the Third Century) and the empire as re-established afterwards by Domitian and Constantine (the "dominate") was very different from the empire of the first two centuries (the "principate"), with more heavy-handed and intrusive government and tax burdens. In the "dominate" period, the Western Roman empire especially seemed to have great difficulty paying for an army which was barely sufficient to keep the barbarians out. The beginning of the end was the famous Crossing of the Rhine in 406, which marked an invasion of barbarians some of whom could not be expelled -- though there were still some further ups and downs before the final collapse. AnonMoos (talk) 14:46, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

Humanities
Could you please advise me as to where I can find the PA state and federal guidelines that govern child custody appeals online? I specifically need the timeline for filing the appeal along with the exact guidelines for the petition must contain in an outlined detail for my jurisdiction. I was unable to locate it on the Bar Association, perhaps I was not entering the correct search or needed to be a member. Time is of the essence. I appreciate your prompt response and any suggestion. The law library is not is not a feasible option due to time constraints. Thank you for any suggestions.Croberts8997 (talk) 18:30, 29 August 2014 (UTC)
 * This is the appropriate document from the Pennsylvania Bar Association website. For detailed advice about your case, you should contact a lawyer - we're not allowed to give legal advice on the Reference Desk. Tevildo (talk) 19:02, 29 August 2014 (UTC)
 * "Where to find legal requirements" is definitely within our purview, and note that Croberts had already checked the Bar Association website, so he was clearly familiar with them and simply hadn't found the page you linked. Nyttend (talk) 12:52, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Which is why I answered the question rather than deleting it. Tevildo (talk) 18:03, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

Exhaustive list + pictures of every single piece of art ever created by Picasso and Dalí
Does anyone of you know where I can find something as close as possible to that? --Schweinchen (talk) 20:51, 29 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Here is a whole website devoted to Pablo Picasso: LINK. And I hope this is an exhaustive list of Salvador Dali's works: LINK. 65.24.105.132 (talk) 21:40, 29 August 2014 (UTC)


 * For Dalí, there is a catalogue raisonné with images at salvador-dali.org (click on "Chronological Index"), but at this point it only reaches up to 1964, and, like most catalogues raisonnés, it only covers one medium of his art (in this case oil paintings). For Picasso, who created in so many media, there exist several catalogues, but I couldn't find any of the more recent ones, with images, online. ---Sluzzelin talk  21:51, 29 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Note that there are probably pieces made by any artist which the public does not have access to, or perhaps even know about. They may have been destroyed, or might be in an attic gathering dust, with an owner oblivious to what it's worth.  Or some were painted over. StuRat (talk) 00:08, 31 August 2014 (UTC)