Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2014 August 4

= August 4 =

Surveying spots
I've long been familiar with the point of beginning article, editing it in 2007 and adding my photo to it in 2009, while I just discovered the initial point article a few minutes ago. Is there any difference between the two terms? They look like synonyms, but I could easily be wrong. Nyttend (talk) 01:28, 4 August 2014 (UTC)


 * They both refer readers to Beginning Point of the U.S. Public Land Survey. I'm no expert but I can't see any real difference between the two.  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  01:53, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
 * The only potential problem is that my own edits are the reason that point of beginning refers to the PLSS beginning point, so I'm left wondering if I made a mistake there. Nyttend (talk) 02:04, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

Geographer of the United States
Why was there no longer a position of Geographer of the United States after Thomas Hutchins? Dismas |(talk) 02:56, 4 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Don't know, but I assume that the modern equivalent position would be head of the United States Geological Survey... -- AnonMoos (talk) 04:23, 4 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Bureau of Intelligence and Research says "The Director of INR/AN/GGI [Office of the Geographer and Global Issues] serves as the Geographer of the United States." This article states that Lee Schwartz became the "GUS" in 2007. Clarityfiend (talk) 07:48, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Fear not, for the Schwartz is with you. Clarityfiend (talk) 08:42, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
 * “...once most of the world’s major boundaries had stabilized and been mapped, we had to branch out and do different work to remain relevant.” I guess we'll never find Honalee now. InedibleHulk (talk) 08:27, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the redirect, Tevildo. Sort of ruined the joke, but made Wikipedia an easier place to navigate. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:54, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
 * You could do Honalee if necessary. Tevildo (talk) 10:55, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Seems a bit drastic. InedibleHulk (talk) 13:24, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

Food covers: cultural aspects and Wikipedia coverage
Covers like these, which protect prepared meals from insects, are a common household item in Asia. There doesn't appear to be coverage of this item in Wikipedia, however, save for a passing mention in the Indonesian cuisine article. Most English-language food hygiene advisories don't seem to mention them. Are such food covers historically exclusive to Eastern culture? Although they're similar in function, I imagine they were developed separately from the metal serving domes associated with fancy dining in the West. --Paul_012 (talk) 09:07, 4 August 2014 (UTC)


 * They're common in Australia. A very quick search found this ad. There would be many more. HiLo48 (talk) 09:18, 4 August 2014 (UTC)


 * From the backyards I've seen, entering a Canadian no-fly zone is generally punishable by death. There's an American health advisory about the possibility of getting their vaporized remains on your meal. I personally find it unsportsmanlike, like how some hornets are clearly on steroids (and the Australian ones are probably strange, too). I've seen those mesh covers around, but not often. Usually Rubbermaid at outdoor deals here. InedibleHulk (talk) 09:59, 4 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Here's a relevant article about several regions. InedibleHulk (talk) 10:11, 4 August 2014 (UTC)


 * My mom has one of those dome shaped screens, but uses it indoors, over the fruit bowl, to keep fruit flies away. Unlike normal flies which are kept out by window screens, fruit flies seem to be able to get past them.  Of course, this means you need an extra fine wire mesh to keep them away from the fruit, too.  I've noticed that window screens seem less common elsewhere in the world, meaning that flies get in and you would need to keep food covered inside, too.  One comment on picnic tables is that they often have gaps between the table slats, allowing flies and ants to come up from below, too.


 * I just find eating outdoors to be too unsanitary and inconvenient, so rarely do so, myself. (Watermelon is an exception, since all the dripping juice and seeds makes a real mess inside.)  We also have a large (people sized) mesh tent for meals outside, but found out the hard way not to leave it open. The flies found the entrance to get in, but never found their way back out, so there were far more flies inside than out !


 * I wonder if they sell glass domes that fit snugly on a tray that comes with them. That would allow you to see the food clearly, block even fruit flies, have the weight to keep from blowing away, and they would be easier to clean.  Admittedly they would be less portable, but for those eating on their patio or tailgating, they only have to be carried a few feet. StuRat (talk) 14:08, 4 August 2014 (UTC)


 * You would need this one for watermelon. Bus stop (talk) 14:25, 4 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Are there articles on that topic on Wikipedias in other languages? Bus stop (talk) 14:14, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Based on the mention in the aforementioned article, I found ms:Tudung saji on the Malay Wikipedia. It's a very short stub though. --Paul_012 (talk) 18:03, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
 * StuRat, see Screened porch; the primary point is to keep out insects, leaves, etc. Nyttend (talk) 15:05, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

Metrodotus?
Have been googling for the Greek philosopher Metrodotus (or Metrodotes) from either 2nd or 3rd century BC (or both), who propagated the view about the existence of other, non-human worlds in the universe, but fond virtually nothing. He is mentioned very briefly in books and seems to be different from Metrodorus of Lampsacus (the younger). Is there any detailed info on him? Brandmeistertalk  13:00, 4 August 2014 (UTC)


 * I don't know whether you consider these 626 hits "virtually nothing". --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  13:10, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
 * They seem to contain a lot of junk, which includes irrelevant Metrodotuses. Brandmeistertalk  13:17, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
 * No luck googling your spellings in Ancient Greek Μητρόδωτος and Μητρόδωτες.
 * I read the articles on Metrodorus and Metrodorus of Chios from the 4th century BC says that he accepted the Democritean theory of the plurality of worlds. The quote "A single ear of wheat in a large field is as strange as a single world in infinite space." is attributed to Metrodorus of Chios. Sleigh (talk) 16:35, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Agree with Sleigh on who you are likely talking about. Added reliable secondary source to Metrodorus of Chios that can lead you to vetted primary literature. Paulscrawl (talk) 17:45, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I was looking for that quote also. Brandmeistertalk  17:50, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Good excuse to replace original research - or ancient public domain content (EB11 content in 2014, really?) - in that article with academically citable & reliable secondary sources. Working on it now.  Source above cited DK 70 (searching for my buried copy now), as does Guthrie's definitive modern history of ancient Greek philosophy (specifying DK 70 A6).  Added citation, with Guthrie's more fluid translation (cf. article's uncited translator) to article. "As a follower of Democritus picturesquely expressed it, it is as unlikely that a single world should arise in the infinite as that one single ear of corn should grow on a large plain." Paulscrawl (talk) 19:25, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

how to wear hijab according to a hadith
Somebody told me that there is a hadith where Prophet Muhammad PBUH said do not wear hijab or niqab in a form that resembles a camel hump or something like that. Is there a website that talks about and shows photos that resemble like that? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.89.42.146 (talk) 15:15, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Vice has an article on it. I'm having trouble finding good citations on the hadith, but it appears to be an interpretation of Sahih Muslim Hadith 5310 that ignores the clarification in Sahih Muslim Hadith 6840 specifying that the hair is like camel humps, not the hijab.  Since decadent women in the Byzantine Empire wore their hair up, and that the Khaleeji-style hijab seems to be recent, I'd assume that Muhammad was talking about giant hair instead of giant hijabs.  But, the principle of not having giant hair could apply to not having giant hijabs, according to whatever you find reasonable.  Ian.thomson (talk) 15:26, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

FAO Statistics
The Potato article contains the following statement: The world dedicated 18.6 million hectares in 2010 for potato cultivation. — I would like to find such data for Tomato too, but the FAO Statistics doesn't give me the area, only the production and the yields of the top 5 producers. Do you know where I can find such data? Thanks. —  Ark25  (talk) 22:12, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
 * The source cited in the article is, which I was able to use to get the area harvested for tomatoes. RudolfRed (talk) 00:13, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Darn, I assumed that doesn't work anymore. The new version doesn't include area. The old version will be available only this month. What am I going to do after that? —  Ark25  (talk) 00:28, 6 August 2014 (UTC)