Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2014 June 14

= June 14 =

Kalakaua and Grant
Frank Leslie's Weekly Newspaper first published this illustration of the meeting of President Ulysses Grant with the King Kalakaua and the Hawaiian delegation. What was the original title/captions under the illustration and who was the artist, Frank Leslie?--KAVEBEAR (talk) 00:56, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, the caption is an easy one. You would have seen it if you had followed the "Source" link from the file page (p. 40): "KING KALAKUA AND SUITE PAYING A FORMAL VISIT TO THE PRESIDENT IN THE BLUE ROOM OF THE WHITE HOUSE". And that source says that the image is from Frank Leslie's Illustrated Almanac, not the Weekly Newspaper. It doesn't, however, explicitly say that Leslie personally executed either the original drawing or the engraving. Deor (talk) 12:10, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

Height of Hawaiian Monarchs
Can anybody help me find reliable sources describing the heights of Kamehameha V, Kamehameha III, Lunalilo and Liliuokalani (probably the shortest)? I've found descriptions of the other monarchs who were more than six feet tall. --KAVEBEAR (talk) 01:23, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

Source conflict: Number of Japanese in Dublin, Ohio
In: Japanese community of Columbus, Ohio I notice one source stated that the census counted 1,071 Japanese in Dublin in 2010 while another stated there were 2,002 Japanese in Dublin in 2014
 * Zachariah, Holly. "Marysville seeks to deepen links to Japan" (Archive). The Columbus Dispatch. Monday December 9, 2013. "According to the most-recent U.S. Census figures, the Japanese population in Dublin is 1,071 (2.6 percent) while Union County is home to 122, or 0.2 percent. It has been that way historically."
 * Eaton, Dan. "Japanese companies added 2,700 Ohio jobs in 2013, survey finds." Columbus Business First. March 10, 2014. "Central Ohio does lead in the number of Japanese nationals living in the state. Dublin, with 2,002, and Columbus’ 705 are home to the state’s two largest populations of Japanese nationals."

Is it likely the Japanese population doubled so quickly or is it a mistake by Eaton? What would the US Census say about this? WhisperToMe (talk) 13:24, 14 June 2014 (UTC)


 * I too find it unlikely that the Japanese population of Dublin, Ohio doubled in just four years... but unfortunately, the Census will not help us to prove or disprove Eaton's statement.  The Census only takes place every 10 years (the last one was taken in 2010, and the next one is not scheduled to be taken until 2020)...  What this means is that Census will not be able to tell us anything about what might (or might not) have occurred since the last Census was taken (the 2010 Census).  To confirm how many Japanese currently live in Dublin, we would have to look for other sources (or wait until the 2020 Census). Blueboar (talk) 14:53, 14 June 2014 (UTC)


 * I suspect from the fact that 2002 and 705 add up to about 2700 that Eaton confused new jobs with Japanese residents. Clarityfiend (talk) 15:53, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the info! WhisperToMe (talk) 16:41, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Not so sure myself. If you read the article, the number of jobs is 2719, not 2700. I guess 2700 is a rounded figure. The 2002 etc figure appear to be presented as a counterpoint to the total (not new) numbers Japanese business related jobs. And the 2002 figure appears in the Japanese consulate-general page . The fact that the source is also quoting the Japanese consulate-general makes me think the figure came from there.
 * As to the discrepancy, I'm guessing the CG is either relying on surveys (they apparently surveyed Japanese businesses, perhaps they also did some sort of resident survey and/or are partially relying on the what the businesses said) or Japanese people register with the Japanese embassy or the consulate-general as living in Dublin. (The CG will probably tell you where they got the figure if you asked.)
 * Beyond population changes, there are many other possibilities for the differences between the two figures including differing definitions of Japanese or Dublin. For starters, I'm guessing any survey or registration would rely much more on the public definition of Dublin and personal views, rather than the precise census definition.
 * Also does the census go by citizenship, place of birth or what? If it's citizenship, does the figure include both if there is dual citizenship? Note that while Japan apparently heavily restricts multiple citizenship; as with a number of countries that do so, they do allow it for those young enough. Combined with the provisions for gaining citizenship for both countries, it's likely many children born in the US to parents where at least one is Japanese will technically be dual citizens of Japan and the US. (And if their parents wanted to give them the option, they likely would have registered their birth with the Japanese embassy or consulate-general.)
 * In addition, I'm not sure whether there is any legal requirement to answer the questions relating to nationality etc for the census in the US. Particularly if there isn't, it may be Japanese people are likely to refuse to answer those questions. (WW2 wasn't that long ago....) Even if there is some requirement, what about in cases like dual citizenship (presuming it's citizenship not place of birth).
 * Nil Einne (talk) 20:11, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Looking into the situation some more... I note that in 2013 Honda closed a plant in California and relocated it to Ohio (near Dublin). This would logically mean an increase in the number of Japanese in the area (ie Japanese employees who used to work in the old plant in California being transferred to the new plant in Ohio).  Whether it adds up to the numbers that Eaton reports on is another question. Blueboar (talk) 20:42, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
 * FYI, as a native of the area, I know lots of people who work for Honda of America, and just almost all of them either were living in west-central Ohio before Honda came, or they were born after Honda came to parents who were living in the area. It's lucrative employment and easy (not particularly hard to get a job there, directly from high school, and they've never laid off a full-time employee), so they don't bring in many Japanese people (and other than that, locals get the jobs; corporate doesn't need to recruit people to come), and they're generally the upper-level types, people whom the management want specifically, i.e. "We need someone for job ____; let's bring [employee name] to fill the position" or "Let's promote ___ to plant manager and have him manage HTM Russells Point."  Nyttend (talk) 06:08, 15 June 2014 (UTC)
 * That's interesting! I know there is a Japanese weekend school in west Ohio but it's probably very small. WhisperToMe (talk) 04:44, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

The figures come from the "2013 Japanese Direct Investment Survey" by the Consulate-General of Japan in Detroit, Dublin had 2,002 Japanese nationals and Columbus had 705 Japanese nationals, "2013 Japanese Direct Investment Survey: Summary of Ohio Results (as of October 1, 2013)" (Archive). Consulate-General of Japan in Detroit. March 5, 2014. -- so the source conflict has been resolved. WhisperToMe (talk) 04:44, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

Rape during wartime
It's well known that during wartime soldiers rape women of the enemy side, and some people assert that rape can even be a tool of war, something not only tolerated by officers but (informally?) ordered by the authorities, as with the Rape of Nanking. In American history, specifically in WWII, Vietnam, and the three Middle East wars, how widespread was rape by American soldiers? --Halcatalyst (talk) 15:56, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Ideologies of Forgetting: Rape in the Vietnam War makes the point that it was routine in Vietnam, and this article by the NYT cites a 2003 DoD report according to which nearly a third of US women veterans experienced rape or attempted rape by their comrades. This does not directly tell us about rape of civilians, but suggests an ongoing problem. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 17:25, 14 June 2014 (UTC)


 * It's hard enough for a modern civilised society to know how widespread rape is, due to systemic under-reporting, cover-ups, and some false reporting. There is no way that anything like accurate statistics will exist for places and times of war. HiLo48 (talk) 22:32, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

The Rape of Nanking is so-called because officers of the Imperial Japanese Army encouraged their troops to vent their anger and frustration at the stubborn defense the city offered. While many actual rapes almost certainly took place, the term is a reference to a conquored city being put to the sword (quite litterally, in many cases) without either justification or military advantage.DOR (HK) (talk) 12:45, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

The Rape of Belgium did not actually mean that the Belgians were all raped. It referred to war crimes in WW1 by German forces, including widespread murder and destruction of homes and public buildings. Some rapes doubtless occurred as well. This is similar to the "Rape of Nanking" by the WW2 Japanese forces. Edison (talk) 01:42, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

Reasoning systems (except from Logic)
I understand the Logic is one of many, maybe even an unending number of possible reasoning-systems. it's one possible reasoning-system manifest that Humans have Mentally-constructed; it has it's own axioms, letters, syntaxes, and rules, and it happens to be the most common, and organized way of reasoning, even within the borders of the Scientific community.

My question is: Where there any efforts to create alternative reasoning-systems, based on other axioms (or somewhat modified logical axioms for that matter)? thanks. Ben-Natan (talk) 17:23, 14 June 2014 (UTC)


 * There are many different logics, which have different axioms and reasoning schemas, different scopes, and even for the same scope, different theorems (true statements). See e.g. Non-classical logic. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 17:27, 14 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Logic is a very good thing, but one of the common criticisms of pure logic as a reasoning system is the GIGO problem. Simply put, logic is supposed to work to derive sound conclusions from initial axioms.  The problem is that the axioms need to be sound for the conclusions to be sound.  If you start from faulty initial information, no amount of sound logic is going to get you to a sound conclusion.  Some interesting writing on other "reasoning systems" (if you will) can be found in some of the writings of Malcolm Gladwell, who, while not himself a social scientist, does a really good job of distilling the work of social scientists into some interesting ways of thinking about the way we think.  Two of his books you may find interesting are Blink (subtitled: The Power of Thinking without Thinking), which looks at the amazing strength of human intuition to arrive at sound conclusions (intuition being an inherently non-logical process, in the sense that it doesn't rely on formal protocols and processes). In that book, Gladwell borrows on the works of several social psychologists who coined the terminology "Thin-slicing", which may lead you to some interesting places as well.  Another of Gladwell's books that may lead you places is What the Dog Saw, which is a little less focused than Blink, but touches in places on some of the same themes.  -- Jayron  32  04:42, 15 June 2014 (UTC)