Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2014 June 19

= June 19 =

Tuha'a Pae
Can anybody fill me in on the history of the usage of the term "Tuha'a Pae" for the Austral Islands? Is it a historical term? Or a native slang with only modern context. This state it means the fifth part which doesn't sound very meaningful to me at least if it was a native historical term which dates prior to Western contact. It sounds like some sort of Tahtiian translation of a French colonial term for the island division. --KAVEBEAR (talk) 06:17, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Based on my research, "pae" means five in Tahitian. I think the book you cited is accurate, and the name was given in reference to the territorial division of French Polynesia. Kurtis (talk) 01:10, 20 June 2014 (UTC)


 * I find a lot of references to "Himene tuhaa pae" meaning traditional songs of the Austral Islands, and lots of references    to a cargo ship named Tuhaa Pae, that supplied the islands at least from the 70s to 2002. So I don't know where you draw the line between modern and historical, but the term has been linked to the archipelago for at least 40 years.
 * Although it is true that there are five administrative divisions of French Polynesia (of which the Austral Islands are one) I haven't found a reference in French yet to these being referred to by number rather than by name. However, I did find a tourism document that says (first sentence, roughly translated) In the polynesian language, the Austral Islands are usually called Tuhaa Pae, referring to the the five islands that make up the Austral archipelago. 184.147.135.33 (talk) 13:42, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

Medieval German equivalent
Since I'm not sure whether Herr and Meister are good candidates, what was the medieval German equivalent of medieval Italian messère and French messer (particularly, in the Holy Roman Empire)? Brandmeistertalk  18:37, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but would you mind being a bit more specific in your question? It's hard to discern exactly what it is you are asking. Are you referring to archaic forms of address (similar to modern-day Italian "signore")? If it's a matter of linguistics, the language reference desk would probably be your best bet. Kurtis (talk) 00:50, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
 * There is the medieval Meister Eckhart, although that is an academic title in his case, the Latin magister, and not the equivalent of messer/monsieur. "Herr" should be the equivalent of that (for example, see Freiherr). I don't know how to spell that in medieval German though... Adam Bishop (talk) 01:50, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
 * The direct literal translation of monsieur is mein Herr, which IIRC, is a bit formal in German, which usually just uses "Herr". Sieur in in French being the English equivalent of "Sir", as a title for a Knight originally, thus Herr is probably the best equivalent.  -- Jayron  32  23:31, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Judging from de:Messer (Titel) its equivalents are Latin dominus, German Herr, Dutch heer, Middle High German hēr and hērre, Old High German hērro. --Pp.paul.4 (talk) 23:10, 22 June 2014 (UTC)