Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2014 October 20

= October 20 =

Easter Island: Historical Low Temperatures
Hi,

My name is Ed McGarrity. I'm doing some research on historical low temperatures for Easter Island. I've run into some data from other sources that conflicts with the numbers posted on Wikipedia. Can anyone tell me what the source was for Wikipedia's numbers? If I can validate those figures, it will be very helpful. Please refer any helpful information to: (deleted) Thanks, Ed -- 00:24, 20 October 2014 199.17.232.4


 * Hi, Ed. Thanks for the question, but please (1) don't indent and double-space your text; it breaks the normal wiki formatting; I've edited your message to change it.  (2) Pleas don't post your email address here; I've deleted it.  And (3) please don't post the same question to more than one reference desk.
 * If people want to answer, I suggest they post on the other desk, as there's already been a response there. --174.88.135.88 (talk) 01:39, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

Old Chinese object
I recently came across our article on Li_Ching-Yuen. Interesting stuff, right? Anyway, simple question: what is he holding in his hands in this photo? Some sort of incense, talisman or charm perhaps? Thanks, SemanticMantis (talk) 13:53, 20 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Google "What is Li Ching-Yuen holding". Appears to be a Ginseng root. 196.213.35.146 (talk) 14:04, 20 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Thanks, I suppose I deserve a WP:trouting for not googling first, though I will still be interested in any other info on the matter. SemanticMantis (talk) 15:31, 20 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Apparently he's not holding the secret to eternal joy. :-) StuRat (talk) 03:18, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

History of the motto of the Royal Society
I was wondering if anyone happened to know the answers to a few questions I have about the motto of the Royal Society: "Nullius in Verba". As well as being generally curious I'm thinking of getting this as a tattoo, but I want to do it properly, so I'm interested in early written records of it that I can reference for typeface etc.


 * 1) In what year was the motto first used?
 * 2) How and by whom was it chosen and was it ever formally ratified e.g. by a vote of the fellows?
 * 3) In what document did the motto first appear in print?
 * 4) Did the motto ever appear in the pages of the Philosophical Transactions, if so, where? (I can't seem to find it in the online archive, but it's possible that some of the front matter etc. was not digitized)

I realise that the best course of action may be to write to the Royal Society and enquire directly, but I thought I'd give the reference desk a go first. Thanks in advance. Equisetum (talk &#124; contributions) 17:03, 20 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Hello Equistetum, Nullius in verba has two sources which answer #2 (and possibly #1). The motto was ratified on Sept 17, 1662. The list of possible mottos (written in 1660) survives, and is in the handwriting of John Evelyn, though the names of the other committee members aren’t mentioned. Taknaran (talk) 18:41, 20 October 2014 (UTC)
 * P.S. Commons has this image showing one early printing of the motto.Taknaran (talk) 19:11, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

Khwarazmian dynasty and "work unions"
In section three of the Khwarazmian dynasty page, you can read some uncited lines about refugee mercenaries from Khorasan after the empire collapsed trying to set up unions and resist low pay. This early outbreak of class consciousness does seem a bit surprising, and I wonder if it really happened.

I can't edit the article myself btw. It has been locked for well over a year now. 213.205.251.206 (talk) 18:00, 20 October 2014 (UTC)


 * That was added almost 5 years ago in this edit, and given the user's other edits, I would have to say he was making it up. Adam Bishop (talk) 21:45, 20 October 2014 (UTC)


 * "Class-conscious" movements existed long before that time -- see Mazdakism -- but they didn't take the form of modern trade-unionism. Mercenary soldiers demanding their pay is a situation that has shaken a number of realms in history, but I'm not sure that it had much resemblance to modern trade-unionism either.... AnonMoos (talk) 15:18, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

Difference between a Credit Union and a Building Society
Is there any difference in the UK between a Building Society and a Credit Union? If so, what is it? --Munchkinguy (talk) 22:14, 20 October 2014 (UTC)
 * You're allowed to read the article titled building society and the one titled credit union and arrive at your own conclusions. No one here is likely to stop you from reading those articles.  -- Jayron  32  23:20, 20 October 2014 (UTC)
 * That seems a bit unkind. I was asking because I spent some time reading about both and couldn't figure out the difference. If you don't want to answer my question, then just skip to the next one. --Munchkinguy (talk) 18:50, 21 October 2014 (UTC)
 * In practice the main difference is that the building societies have been around for a lot longer. They usually have physical branches in more than one town, whereas a credit union may only have a single office. A building society would have more staff. By definition, a building society offers mortgages, whereas a credit union probably would not. Itsmejudith (talk) 07:01, 21 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you. That's interesting because credit unions in Canada offer mortgages and have multiple branches. I've seen a few ads for credit unions popping up in London and was curious what the difference was. --Munchkinguy (talk) 18:51, 21 October 2014 (UTC)
 * The credit union I do business with has multiple branches as well, and I'm in a town that brags about that one time the Simpsons tried to make fun of us. Holy crap, there's even an article about them.  They also do mortgages and finance cars, IIRC.
 * So far as I can tell, the only difference between the two is a historical one (and then a matter of purpose rather than effect, with Building societies focused more on actually getting homes, while credit unions were just an alternative to banks). If there was some massive overhaul of society to relabel things according to their purpose, they'd probably end up lumped together.  Ian.thomson (talk) 19:03, 21 October 2014 (UTC)
 * The OP was asking about the UK. Our credit unions are quite recently established. There was a discussion a year or so ago about whether their senior staff are well remunerated. I looked it up, and they are not, in fact they are largely volunteers. Moreover, they employ very few middle level or junior staff. You can get your salary paid into a credit union in the UK, although not many people are aware of that. You can save money with them, and of course they lend, mainly small sums and mainly to people who aren't well off. Itsmejudith (talk) 20:37, 21 October 2014 (UTC)