Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2015 April 29

= April 29 =

Have street gangs ever been recruited to help enforce a curfew before?
From 2015 Baltimore riots:
 * The Los Angeles Police Department ordered officers to ride in pairs when in cars after Baltimore police determined there was a "credible threat" of gang violence against police officers across the country, claiming that the Black Guerrilla Family, the Bloods, and the Crips were "teaming up" to target police officers. Later, however, leaders of both gangs denied the allegations, released a video statement asking for calm and peaceful protest in the area, and joined with police and clergy to enforce the curfew.

Agents provocateur we see all the time in American protests, and the fact that, this time, they were apparently a bunch of white high schoolers using public social media, may have contributed to the minority gangs' decision here. But this is ... new? EllenCT (talk) 04:49, 29 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Slightly related: The Hells Angels were once hired as security at a Rolling Stones concert. Dismas |(talk) 10:13, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Well yes, definitely the idea of gangs trying to get involved in legitimate contracted activities isn't new, whatever the reason behind it. Nil Einne (talk) 15:42, 29 April 2015 (UTC)


 * I don't know particularly about official agreement to help enforce a curfew. But the idea of gang members protecting businesses etc definitely isn't new . (Nor BTW is the idea of gang members cooperating to take out police or other wacky ideas .) Nil Einne (talk) 15:34, 29 April 2015 (UTC)


 * One thing to remember, is that "gangs" refers to organized crime, with an emphasis on "organized". The media (both news and fiction, etc.) and culture at large tends to portray these groups as random groups of thugs committing random acts of violence with no motive or purpose.  That's not what they are.  Criminal gangs are best thought of as businesses which operate outside of the law, mainly selling illegal drugs.  Their actions need to be understood from a primarily economic point of view.  What is good for business is good for business.  Random looting which destroys infrastructure and attracts extra police to your neighborhood is decidedly bad for business, so it is understandable that the leadership of these organizations would want to stop the looting immediately.  It's a rationale decision that makes perfect sense when you understand that gangs = businesses, and thus act in ways that are good for their business.  One of the best and most readable works on understanding the economics of gangs was done by Steven Levitt and Sudhir Venkatesh, who in the late 1990s and early 2000s did some excellent work on the economics of the underground economy.  A portion of their work was republished in Levitt's seminal work Freakonomics, which is an excellent read for other reasons.  -- Jayron 32 15:59, 29 April 2015 (UTC)


 * The shabiha do a lot (at least an alleged lot) of enforcement for the Syrian government. Granted, the Syrian unrest is a great deal more advanced than the American, but it may give some clues as to how a theoretical progression might go. There are certainly many differences between the situations, but as Jayron32 says, gangs like money. If it comes down to "them" vs "us" in a serious way, "they" have far more money. InedibleHulk (talk) 06:42, 1 May 2015 (UTC)


 * The janjaweed are more "tribe" than "gang", and the streets are even more different in Sudan, but they do a hell of a lot of government enforcing. InedibleHulk (talk) 06:52, 1 May 2015 (UTC)


 * You know what sounds classier than "street gang"? "Citizen Armed Force Geographical Unit". Or "Civilian Irregular Defense Group". Or, if you don't mind sounding pretentious and archaic, "Ancient and Honorable Artillery Company of Massachusetts". InedibleHulk (talk) 07:26, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

Use of police firearms in Northern Ireland
I was told a while ago that whilst all PSNI officers carry a sidearm, the force also has Authorised Firearms Officers. The sidearm is issued mainly for personal protection, and AFOs are deployed to incidents in a similar way as in England, Scotland and Wales. I can't find any confirmation of this. Can anyone else? Thanks. Dalliance (talk) 12:05, 29 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Not very successful, but I found A NEW BEGINNING: POLICING IN NORTHERN IRELAND numbered p. 50 (p. 53 of the file):


 * ''"There has been no case of the RUC shooting anyone dead since 1991. So the extent to which policing in Northern Ireland relies on the firearm is very limited. Several police officers have told us that they would be prepared to do their jobs unarmed now, and a few already choose not to carry a weapon. Nevertheless there is a strong feeling among many police that a personal protection weapon is indispensable against the background of police officers having lost their lives in the past 30 years and about 8,500 having been wounded and disabled, and taking account of international trends towards more violent crime.


 * " Health and Safety legislation imposes requirements upon the police to provide suitable equipment to minimise the assessed risk that police officers face. At present, this almost certainly means the provision of firearms as personal protective equipment. We recommend that the question of moving towards the desired objective of a routinely unarmed police service be periodically reviewed in the light of developments in the security environment. We welcome the gradual withdrawal of long arms from police patrols in most parts of Northern Ireland and we hope that this process will also continue wherever possible."


 * This confirms the personal protection element of sidearms and the "withdrawal of long arms from police patrols" implies that they will be deployed in armed response units as in the rest of the UK, but this isn't spelled out. Note that all PSNI officers are required to pass a firearms course and a 6 monthly refresher.(p. 5) Alansplodge (talk) 22:04, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

Yes, that's right. All PSNI constables carry a personal protection weapon; but there are separate Armed Response Units like other UK police services. I know someone who discovered this when, after a misunderstanding nearly interpreted as a forecourt drive-off, an ARV which happened to be passing arrived at the forecourt.

All constables must carry the PPW at all times when on duty. The only one I've seen who did not, was walking across a walled & secure police car park. Being armed while commuting or in private life is entirely optional, but I know constables who do so. There are good reasons: a prison officer was shot dead on the M1 motorway (2013?), commuting from Dungannon to HMP Maghaberry. Anyone working for the UK security services - police, military, prisons, prosecutors, judges, intelligence; office staff, private contractors - was considered by terrorists (particularly the Provisional IRA) to be a legitimate target during the Troubles. These lines of work were normally granted a firearms licence. Unlike Great Britain, firearms licences can be granted for self defence in Northern Ireland. Some retired officers have said it is entirely a personal choice whether or not a PSNI constable keeps their weapon on retirement (so long as you're medically fit, etc.).

Armed Response Units are another kettle of fish entirely. Of course, you need separate a specially trained personnel because of the increased probability of having to shoot someone in, say, an armed robbery situation and the skills are very different to defending yourself in your private life. Strangely, the cars (often an Audi A7) are either unmarked or in normal livery. At least some are modded to bulletproof glass, and with it a bulky interior. On the back of their bulletproof vests, it reads 'POLICE ARV' - when, of course, they are not a vehicle and they are armed anyway - nonsensical. I think armed response constables carry Tasers, also. I recall the case of a dog tasered by a female constable in her 20s in the first week of the job.

Sometimes you will see a Heckler & Koch MP5 (semi-automatic) - previous reasons have included a Royal visit or the G8 conference, for example. That alone is a deterrent: no messing about, because something critical is happening.

The article linked above is sixteen years old; since when so much has changed - 50/50 recruitment came and went, policing has been devolved to NI and so on. In 2011, a constable commuting to work shot dead an armed robber who happened to be there. Complete disarmament was recommended in 1969; the RUC were re-armed after the short experiment in 1970-71. It is difficult to speculate, as history shows. I do not foresee disarmament beginning for many years. For a start, the security situation can change quickly so the ability to re-arm constables literally overnight is important. Terrorist groups are part disappeared; part disintegrated into traffickers of people, sex, drugs and other organised crime. I haven't even noticed Sinn Fein adopt a policy of disarming (they are the most likely elected party to do so).

I would connect it to the PSNI's track record of high visibility, but low-key use: it's extremely rare to shoot anyone. The logic is be armed, but only because it is critical to your safety. The regulators (Policing Board, Policing Ombudsman) are much stricter than the IPCC. The 2011 shooting was a textbook example: carrying a knife, threatening others and ignoring warnings. The PSNI's status of being armed is surprisingly uncontroversial.89.242.197.87 (talk) 19:57, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

Where does the food go?
In a developed country like the United States, there are supermarkets filled with massive quantities of food with limited shelf life and the persistent advertising scheme that the food is always fresh. If the food is always fresh, where does the overdue food go? Are they fed to homeless people on the streets, to feral cats and dogs, or to the recycling center? How do supermarkets predict that the supply of food meets the demand for food? What if consumers suffer from a bad economic crisis and cannot purchase food? 140.254.70.33 (talk) 14:36, 29 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Supermarkets in the United States have sophisticated inventory-monitoring systems and computer algorithms that predict, based on historic data, exactly how much of a given item will be consumed on a given day of the week, or even date of the year, to take account of annual holidays. They stock their shelves accordingly to minimize wastage.  A complicated calculation can balance foregone profit in the event an item runs out against the cost of wastage if an item stays on the shelf past its sell-by date.  The result is remarkably little wastage. What wastage there is ends up in locked dumpsters behind the supermarket for only an hour or two, since disposal is synchronized with waste pickup.  The resulting wastage ends up usually in landfills where it feeds microorganisms and perhaps wild fauna. As for your last question, for people in the United States whose incomes don't cover their food costs, there is a program called the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program. Most if not all developed countries have programs designed to ensure that nobody goes hungry.  (The programs are not always completely effective, so there is still some hunger in developed countries.)  Marco polo (talk) 14:59, 29 April 2015 (UTC)


 * @ Marco polo. Your quote: The result is remarkably little wastage. unquote. Is hundreds of thousands of tons your idea of little wastage? Almost half of the world's food thrown away, report finds. Appears your quoting from big-company public relations blurb ― not ever-day reality.--Aspro (talk) 17:16, 29 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Do supermarkets overestimate or underestimate the supply of food? How do they know whether to round up or down? 140.254.70.33 (talk) 15:19, 29 April 2015 (UTC)


 * First some nearly expired food is sold at mark-down and often in out-of-way corners. Some is cooked up into deli prepared foods. Charity organizations like Gleaners collect some of the food for distribution through food banks. Some is sent back to be sold at "salvage groceries" which specialize in expired food. Rmhermen (talk) 16:13, 29 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Rmhermen is right that not all wastage ends up in bins. As for the question of overestimating or underestimating, the goal is to come as close as possible, using statistical methods, to an accurate estimate. That said, if the cost of a highly perishable item is high and the profit margin is low, then a profit-maximizing algorithm will tend to underestimate demand.  If the cost is low and the profit and shelf-life are high, all other things being equal, then there would be a tendency to overestimate demand.  Marco polo (talk) 17:06, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
 * So, who or what type of people do the actual work of estimating accurate supply amount? Do supermarkets just hire economists or mathematicians or statisticians or data analysts? 140.254.70.33 (talk) 17:46, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Marketers ( people involved in the marketing business ) are most of them statisticians themselves, and they will also be hiring other statisticians if necessary. Accuracy is right from the beginning a requirement regarding economic success. Health and environmental regulations are only a supplementary and after all, rather limited drag on their otherwise productive capabilities. --Askedonty (talk) 19:34, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Managers of all businesses try to meet supply with demand, it's not difficult. 184.145.87.79 (talk) 19:55, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

Related info: food loss and food waste is estimated at about 33% by the FAO - see their reports here and more info here. Our article on food waste gives a higher estimate- 1/2 of food is wasted. The table of data does not separate retail waste from production waste. See the section there Food_waste for some things that happen to food. Here's an article from NPR specifically about retail waste from supermakets in the USA. 18:17, 29 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Food loss from waste is highest in developing countries without a refrigerated "cool chain" from field to table. According to this study consumers, not supermarkets, account for most food waste in the United States. That said, I stand corrected about retail food waste in the United States. Apparently supermarkets find it more profitable to keep food in stock even if there is a fair likelihood that it will time out before it is sold.  Marco polo (talk) 18:34, 29 April 2015 (UTC)


 * The law probably differs greatly by state. My mother has complained that in NJ they are not allowed to give the food away, it has to be treated as garbage once the expiration date is reached.  Items nearing that date will often by marked down greatly in price.  Marco Polo basically gets it right.  Also most people know SNAP as "food stamps".  There's also WIC which is for mothers with infants and children.  In NYC there are occasionally scandals with expired meat being washed in bleach (chicken) or dyed red (ground beef) and sold as if still fresh.  I once had that happen with hamburger meat, I was cooking it for chili, the meat stank and a purple die floated in top of the pot as I was rendering it.
 * μηδείς (talk) 18:44, 29 April 2015 (UTC)


 * The usual merkin way of dealing with dead meat is to use extraordinary rendition. That would have fixed it good and proper.  (Was it a Cuban chili, by the way?)  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  21:07, 29 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Merickan is neither spelt that way, nor lower case. By rendering I simply meant to melt off the fat, since it was cheap 70% lean beef.  I threw it out and complained to the owner.  He got me a fresh cut and put it through the grinder for me, and told me to request freshly ground meat from then on.  This case with Mike Nichols' widow was a famous one at the time, and involved NY stores. 21:32, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I was, of course, referring to this type of merkin. I'm sure you have a goodly supply of them in your closet.  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  06:24, 3 May 2015 (UTC)


 * One day, I came to (my former) job to find that not only had last night's storm knocked out the power at my house, but at work as well. The majority of the frozen foods had at least a good eight hours to thaw.  I was under the impression that it went to pig-farmers or something.  You can take out all the plastic, metal, and cardboard, boil it into a slurry, and safely serve it to pigs without giving them food poisoning... Unlike homeless people, which way too many customers told me we should've given the spoiled food to.  Nevermind that I was just a cashier.  Oh, wait, I was one of two white male cashiers, so everyone assumed I was a manager.  Ian.thomson (talk) 18:58, 29 April 2015 (UTC)


 * One method they use to limit food wastage is to put things on sale that will expire soon. Apu: "Homer, you can't work at the Kwik-E-Mart any more, you keep forgetting to change the expiration dates !" StuRat (talk) 19:06, 29 April 2015 (UTC)


 * The UK's largest supermarket chain, Tesco, claims that "...where possible, if food could not be sold it was either donated to poverty charity FareShare, converted into animal feed for livestock, or was recycled into renewable fuel."  Alansplodge (talk) 22:20, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I like "renewable fuel" - I'm sure even Tesco's food doesn't have a large percentage of ingredients derived from crude oil (or uranium). It's like "No preservatives!!!" on canned food.  Unless, of course, they make fuel that you can burn twice from time-expired croissants... Tevildo (talk) 23:01, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Tevildo, See Biodiesel Blueboar (talk) 11:55, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Anaerobic digestion--Phil Holmes (talk) 09:54, 30 April 2015 (UTC)


 * This is an example of a restaurant in the UK which uses "intercepted food" (which we haven't got an article on yet). Are there not such establishments in the US? --ColinFine (talk) 22:37, 29 April 2015 (UTC)


 * States and localities can regulate food distribution, see from HuffPo: "CBS reports on the bizarre rule that turns away food, perhaps the most needed item for any shelter, because according to health officials, it's impossible to gauge the items' salt, fiber, and other nutritional stats" on just one of many such actions by former New York City Fuehrer, Mikhail Bloomberg. (PS, he's bought British subjectionhood (what is the word for that?) and he wants to run for mayor of London next.)

Is SES a predictor of the hookup culture?
Do people with higher SES and more opportunities in life engage in less hookups than people of lower SES? 140.254.70.33 (talk) 16:30, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Read This and This and This one looks really awesome for answering your question just as a start. -- Jayron 32 16:38, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Are middle-aged people part of the hookup culture too? Or is it more of a teen thing? 140.254.70.33 (talk) 16:47, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Have you read Hookup culture? Rojomoke (talk) 16:54, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I did, it's a horrible article where you can see sources with severe biases stating contradictory facts. 184.145.87.79 (talk) 19:58, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Middle-aged "hook-up culture", especially in the context of middle-aged people nominally involved in committed relationships, is often known as swinging. The more general term for engaging in open sexual relationships with many people, without regard for any long-term commitment, is Polyamory.  Those articles will lead you in interesting directions if you're willing to both read them, and follow their links and references to more information.  -- Jayron 32 01:30, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
 * No, I think you've misunderstood the term "polyamory". You make it sound like casual sex, but as I understand it, it's supposed to be about deep loving relationships with multiple people.  Whether those relationships are "long-term" or "committed" is a somewhat different matter, but certainly in the polyamorous ideal, there's no reason they shouldn't be. --Trovatore (talk) 03:06, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Acronym expansion: SES = Socioeconomic status. -- ToE 16:50, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Although our article fails to mention it, there are indeed middle-aged people who engage in hookups. It's just much less common than among younger people.  Marco polo (talk) 17:01, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

What is the correlation of both SES and emotional intelligence with the ability to attract sexual partners? 108.171.132.161 (talk) 19:36, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

Edith of Wessex
How was Edith of Wessex treated by William the Conqueror after the Norman Conquest?--The Emperor&#39;s New Spy (talk) 23:47, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Indications in the article are that she was treated with dignity. William presumably had no issues with Edward the Confessor. It was Harold who (according to William's side of it) had betrayed William. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:26, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
 * "She herself had to hand the keys of Winchester, the ancient Anglo-Saxon base, to William the Conqueror... William allowed her to keep her considerable properties, so she remained in Winchester until her death on 19 December 1075." James Panton, Historical Dictionary of the British Monarchy (p. 144). Alansplodge (talk) 10:24, 1 May 2015 (UTC)