Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2015 December 31

= December 31 =

Dates in office for U.S. Politicians
Before the 20th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution in 1933, the terms of office for the President and members of Congress began on March 4th and, I would think, normally ended on their date. However, I see on Wikipedia that some Congressman, such as Andrew Johnson and Daniel Sickles, are listed as having their terms in office end on March 3rd, a day before I would think they would have ended. Meanwhile, Presidents have their terms of office listed as extending to the 4th. Why is this? Thank you.Display name 99 (talk) 03:25, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Possibly because the initial date was just given as the date, whereas the 1933 changes defined the starting point as noon. So presumably prior to 1933 the old term expired at midnight, while now it expires at noon, i.e. 12 hours later than it used to. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 03:49, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, but why is it different for Presidents than it is for most Congressman? Also, Senator Benjamin Wade has his term listed as ending on the 4th. Why would it be different for him?Display name 99 (talk) 16:01, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Maybe there are some sourcing issues with the various articles, i.e. maybe the individual editors have put their own interpretations on when terms ended, rather than going by a proper source. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 16:25, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. Maybe somebody here could figure out a way to standardize it so that all the articles could be consistent.Display name 99 (talk) 18:04, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
 * First, someone has to figure out what the right answer is. Which, unfortunately, takes us back to your original question. :( ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 19:44, 31 December 2015 (UTC)


 * I don't have a source for this but as far as I recall, there was something about insuring that there was a line of succession. If the other people are sworn in first and such, then there is someone to take over in the case of the president dying. Dismas |(talk) 23:03, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
 * I vaguely recall that Biden was sworn in before Obama, for example. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 23:16, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

Yes, but their terms both began on the same date. Certainly there is no confusion over whether or not an office-holder's term after 1933 began on January 2nd or January 3rd, due to the "noon" clause, but it puzzles me when I see on Edward Everett's biography that his 5th term in the House ended on March 4th, but that Andrew Johnson's 5th term in the House ended on March 3rd. I won't worry about it too much now. Just please someone let me know if you come up with any answers. If someone gives a convincing enough argument for one date versus another, we'll probably have to change all of the biographies to that date. If anything, I would think that all Congressional terms would have ended on the 4th, because that's when all Presidents' terms are listed as ending.Display name 99 (talk) 00:37, 1 January 2016 (UTC)
 * The reason for the priority by date and time of those who hold congressional office to those who hold executive office in the US is due to the priority of the legislative branch (article 1) over the executive branch (article 2) http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html. The US is a Republic, and although it has a single executive, it is not a monarchy in the Roman or British sense. It was not Simon Bolivar or Napoleon Bonaparte nor George Washington who established our republic, but the Continental Congress and its successors (at the behest of the States) who did.  This idea of representational sovereignty dates to the Magna Carta the English Civil War, amd the Glorious Revolution  μηδείς (talk) 04:41, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

That doesn't help any. Display name 99 (talk) 23:46, 1 January 2016 (UTC)