Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2015 December 9

= December 9 =

Non-commonlaw subpoenas
The subpoena article says that the concept is used in common-law contexts, but it doesn't address civil law systems, and while I don't know French, there's no way to misunderstand the first sentence of fr:subpoena, "Subpoena est un terme juridique du droit anglo-saxon". I assume that civil law systems generally have some way of compelling the presence of evidence. What's the English term (or at least an English term) for the analogous concept in civil law systems? All I'm finding with Google searches are pages talking about what to do if you're served a subpoena for a Civil law (common law) case, not pages talking about analogous concepts under Civil law (legal system). Nyttend (talk) 03:45, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
 * How about Summons. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 04:07, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Summons is notice that you are charged with a misdemeanor or tort and will be found guilty if you don't plead your case. Subpoena (litterally "under pain") is the requirement that you appear to testify, often in a case to which you are not necessarily a direct party.  I am sorry I cannot answer Nyttend directly, but inquisitorial system might be a good place to start. μηδείς (talk) 16:48, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Really? If that's the case, then the article titled "Summons" is wrong, and you're going to have to use your (as yet unnamed) sources to correct the article.  The Wikipedia article states, in part, "A judicial summons is served on a person involved in a legal proceeding. Legal action may be in progress against the person, or the person's presence as witness may be required.[1]" (bold mine, footnote in original).  The part I bolded implies that a summons may be issued for a witness who is not necessarily a party to a crime or tort.  -- Jayron 32 17:18, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
 * The article was already linked, and it was not my intention to imply that someone subject to a summons wasn't summoned. They'll often simply be sentenced in absentia otherwise, at least in the US.  The big problem is that making this distinction doesn't ansewr Nyttend's request for a more general term. μηδείς (talk) 02:14, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
 * You said "Summons is notice that you are charged with a misdemeanor or tort and will be found guilty if you don't plead your case" The quote I quoted disagrees with your statement directly and unambiguously, in that it states that summons do NOT always indicate what you say they do.  -- Jayron 32 02:26, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Certainly under English law (which no longer uses the term "subpoena"), a summons can require attendance as a witness (in which case it is called a "witness summons": see Part 34 of the Civil Procedure Rules and Part 17 of the Criminal Procedure Rules). Proteus (Talk) 17:32, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
 * The problem with "summons" is that it's for someone who's a defendant or someone who's a witness, unlike a subpoena, which is apparently only for witnesses. I'm looking specifically for the English-language term (not the French-language term) for something that's just for witnesses, all the while being open to the possibility that there is no such term.  Nyttend (talk) 19:17, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
 * As I said, the term for that in English law at least is "witness summons". Proteus (Talk) 11:41, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
 * "Witness summons" also seems to be the English term under German law (see Section 48 of the German Code of Criminal Procedure) and French law (see e.g. Articles 101 and 281 of the French Code of Criminal Procedure), which are the first two I looked at. You can have a look through this list of criminal codes to see what is used in various other jurisdictions. Proteus (Talk) 11:52, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you; I didn't care about the term in English law, since I was looking for terminology in non-common-law jurisdictions. The German and French links are just what I was looking for.  Nyttend (talk) 23:57, 13 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you; I didn't care about the term in English law, since I was looking for terminology in non-common-law jurisdictions. The German and French links are just what I was looking for.  Nyttend (talk) 23:57, 13 December 2015 (UTC)


 * If you are looking for French specifically, the French Wikipedia has an article titled fr:Citation (droit) with links to additional articles. The French article notes that a "citation" is given to " une personne sommée de se présenter devant un tribunal.", or "A person summoned to present themselves before a court."  That means the equivalent term in French appears to be "citation".  There are links to some specific citations in that article.  -- Jayron 32 17:22, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

Is fishing a gendered activity?
Is fishing normally regarded as a man’s job or past‐time? --Romanophile (talk) 08:27, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
 * In which country/ies and in what era? --Dweller (talk) 10:50, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
 * In the past time, obviously. —Tamfang (talk) 12:52, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
 * You're right. I'll get off my hobby horse. --Dweller (talk) 13:06, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
 * It seems to depend on the culture and the time period. This study indicates that Women play a prominent role in the cultures surrounding Lake Victoria.  -- Jayron 32 13:50, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
 * According to this article by the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations, "women are estimated to make up nearly half of all people in the fisheries sector" but "While men continue to dominate capture fisheries – particularly offshore and industrial fishing— women across all regions are often relegated to processing, local sale and support roles, including cleaning boats and bringing fish to market". The article discusses some "key findings of a new review of women’s participation in the industry, published by FAO today" (19 May, 2015), but that link, which is supposed to go to "vol-119-the-role-of-women-in-the-seafood-industry", doesn't work, and I've not yet been able to find where the review actually is. -- ToE 14:04, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
 * FAO staff told me that they've rearranged the website, and the report can be downloaded from this page. (76 page PDF here.) -- ToE 20:50, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
 * So, not knowing where/when you mean, and if you're interested in hobbies or employment, I'll just give a few refs for different places and times. Women have been involved in fishing and net making in many cultures. Here's a bit about the southern USA, here's a whole history of women and fishing in aboriginal cultures of NSW, AU: . Here's some magazine articles about the many (but minority) women who work in commercial fishing in Alaska . That being said, it is my distinct impression that in "traditional" Norman Rockwell middle class USA, the concept of spending a whole Saturday line fishing at the river for fun (not primary subsistence) was often considered a mostly male pastime. That's the kind of thing it's hard to find refs for, and I may well be wrong. But I do think it's telling that there's dozens of paintings of men and boys fishing here , with nary a women in sight. SemanticMantis (talk) 14:13, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Probably not very representative reference but I like this one: Cornelia "Fly Rod" Crosby. Akseli9 (talk) 17:38, 10 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Since you need a specification, I’ll suggest modern France. --Romanophile (talk) 22:42, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

What is halowet?
What is halowet? It is supposed to be something you eat or drink, probably from the Middle East, but what? Might it be misspelled? F nerve (talk) 16:35, 9 December 2015 (UTC)


 * There are numerous spellings of Halva, some approaching that of your mystery word. -- ToE 16:44, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
 * This site (not, I think, a reliable source) uses the name "Halowet-li-jiben" for a Syrian "sweetened cheese" recipe (which sounds repulsive, but is consistent with "halowet" being a variant of "halva"). Our article Syrian cheese doesn't list it. Tevildo (talk) 22:21, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
 * "Halawet el jibn" gives us some rather more palatable-looking confections (here, for instance). Tevildo (talk) 22:27, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

A packet of Sonkies
Hello. I was reading Terry Pratchett's book, The Fifth Elephant, when I noticed that there was no explanation for what a 'packet of Sonkies' was. Apparantly, Carrot is embarrassed about them and they are made from rubber. That is all I know. Does anyone know what they are? Megaraptor12345 (talk) 22:29, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Contraceptives. See Wallace Sonky on lspace.org. Tevildo (talk) 22:49, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
 * When I was a teenager in England they were known as tonkies. Ghmyrtle (talk) 15:04, 11 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Indeed. PTerry did have something of a reputation for using language in this fashion... Tevildo (talk) 22:59, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

Blindness of George V of Hanover
What was specifically the "accident" that caused the blindness of the remaining eye of George V of Hanover (Prince George of Cumberland) when he was fourteen? I can't seem to find anything about it.--The Emperor&#39;s New Spy (talk) 23:39, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
 * He was goofing around and caught a silk purse in the face while tossing it up in the air and catching it. It only partially destroyed the sight in that eye though.  According to that source, he went permanently blind when, in 1840, a surgeon brought in to repair his vision botched the operation and severed his optic nerve.  -- Jayron 32 23:48, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
 * See The New Monthly Magazine of October 1833 (here). Apparently, he "struck the sound eye of the two with the steel acorn of a purse which he was playfully swinging round in his hand." The unsuccessful doctor was one "Baron von Graffe" (no article, apparently), whose treatment "consist[ed] in the application of a medicinal herb". Tevildo (talk) 23:56, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
 * We do have an article on the surgeon - Karl Ferdinand von Graefe. Tevildo (talk) 23:59, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Incidentally, Jayron's link mentions that von Gräfe committed suicide following the operation, and the dates are consistent - is it a sufficiently reliable source for the fact to be mentioned in our article? Tevildo (talk) 00:10, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
 * My source was a blog, which I picked mostly because it had a good narrative. I'm sure we can back up the basic facts of George's blindness and Graefe's death with better sources, however.  Probably good enough for RD, but not for WP:RS purposes to cite in an article.  Still, since we know the details, we can cross reference to better refs.  -- Jayron 32 00:13, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
 * This book says he died of typhus. Clarityfiend (talk) 10:46, 10 December 2015 (UTC)