Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2015 July 29

= July 29 =

The world's northernmost medieval building
Are there any medieval buildings north of Trondenes Church? --Ghirla-трёп- 09:33, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
 * There "is" Vardøhus Fortress, far to the east and north, established in 1300. A first church in Vardø was established in 1307 by Archbishop Jørund av Nidaros; Vardø is the easternmost town of Norway. The original buildings (earth, stone, wood, later brick) did not survive the climate. Looking only superficially I found nothing else; Steinvikholm Castle is much more to the south, near Trondheim. This site says that stone building came to Norway after the Norse left paganism, it's indeed a whole set of technologies, and Steinvikholm is southern to Trondenes. It  requires more resources for building a fortress than for a simple church, and the time that Steinvikholm was built, the Middle Ages were already mostly passed. --Askedonty (talk) 13:35, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
 * , I don't think demolished structures are of importance. On the Russian side of the border, neither Kola nor Pechenga Monastery has kept its 16th-century structures. The Solovetsky Monastery lies somewhat to the south. These lands don't benefit from the Gulf Stream, so the climate is even more harsh. --Ghirla-трёп- 07:22, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
 * then there is none, as far as I'm able to find. At the same latitude than Solovetsky Monastery ( 65°N) stays the northernmost medieval church of Sweden, the Lutheran church in Kalix in Norrbotten County. Regarding Finland according to our article Architecture of Finland no medieval wooden church of Finland remains, and there is no indication that any kind of other medieval building remains north to Olavinlinna (61.51°N). Finally regarding Norway, this IV European Symposium for Teachers of Medieval Archaeology report, 1999 for example shows a map of the  medieval Churches known by textual references, in Northern Norway:  Vågan, Trondenes, Lenvik, Tromsø, Loppa, Tunes, and Vardø: none surviving northern to Trondenes is mentioned elsewhere, much less, any occurrence of a castle of course. --Askedonty (talk) 17:06, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

The truth in Nazi germany
George Orwell (the author of 1984) has said that "Nazi theory indeed specifically denies that such a thing as "the truth" exists. ... The implied objective of this line of thought is a nightmare world in which the Leader, or some ruling clique, controls not only the future but the past. If the Leader says of such and such an event, "It never happened" – well, it never happened. If he says that two and two are five – well, two and two are five. This prospect frightens me much more than bombs". I'm interested in that way to manage the truth (1984 is very illustrative, but I want to know about the real case that Orwell spoke about, before actually writing that book). Do we have some article about it? Cambalachero (talk) 12:57, 29 July 2015 (UTC)


 * This seems to be a reference to the Führerprinzip. Neutralitytalk 13:34, 29 July 2015 (UTC)


 * The effort to re-write the past to suit current objectives is covered by Historical_revisionism_(negationism). SemanticMantis (talk) 17:27, 29 July 2015 (UTC)


 * The idea of a subjective truth over-riding an objective reality seems to have been a bit of a theme of Orwell's (as well as Borges). It was most vividly expressed in 1984, but Orwell also wrote about it in essays such as The Prevention of Literature, which should really be seen as working drafts of the themes of 1984.


 * In answer to your question, if you read the The Prevention of Literature you will see that he accuses the USSR and its propagandists of distorting the historical record: The fog of lies and misinformation that surrounds such subjects as the Ukraine famine, the Spanish civil war, Russian policy in Poland [...]. If you want to do some more reading, I would suggest The Devils' Alliance by Roger Moorhouse, which sets out at some length the ideological contortions that the British Communist Party went through in first opposing Hitler's invasion of Poland; then supporting it; and, post 1941, opposing it again. 31.63.191.27 (talk) 15:36, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

Michel-Gaspard Coppenrath
Can someone help me find other sources that talk about the descent, early life, or parents of Michel-Gaspard Coppenrath and Hubert Coppenrath? I recently found this which call them demi (half Polynesian) and wonder if more details exist out there.--KAVEBEAR (talk) 18:29, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Can you access this page on geneanet.org ? The two brothers' father is named Clément: here on "ancestry", his date of birth is given as 1 May 1888; the French Wikipedia states "approximately 1885": . --Askedonty (talk) 20:10, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks!--KAVEBEAR (talk) 21:06, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

Papaoa
Where is Papaoa in respect to Arue, French Polynesia?--KAVEBEAR (talk) 19:24, 29 July 2015 (UTC)


 * According to the government of Arue, the district of Papaoa was renamed Arue on the accession of Pōmare I. According to the French Wikipedia article fr:Arue (Polynésie française), Papaoa was the name of the royal estate there. Elsewhere, though, I've seen reference to a "quartier" within Arue called Papaoa.  This historic map labels a specific location as Papaoa.  It seems to be the same location labeled in Google Maps as "Papava" (probably a typo).  It seems to correspond to the present-day location of the Radisson Plaza Resort and the neighborhood just to its west.  Marco polo (talk) 20:27, 29 July 2015 (UTC)


 * [It is not to be confused with Papamoa.—Wavelength (talk) 21:05, 29 July 2015 (UTC)]

Entering the UK from France as Illegal immigrant
If they are already in France, why take the risk (not only of being caught but also of dying) to sneak into the UK? What makes France or other EU countries like Germany or Denmark less attractive? It seems to be a mass phenomenon, with hundreds and hundreds waiting in Calais for the best moment. --Yppieyei (talk) 22:07, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
 * BBC News: Would Calais migrants really be better off in the UK? Fgf10 (talk) 22:28, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
 * One thing we can be sure of: They're not fleeing to the UK because they think the food is better. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:10, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Are we sure? They could be sick of frogs' legs and snails and pining for some spotted dick and bangers & mash. —Nelson Ricardo (talk) 00:45, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
 * This coming from the country that has spay-on cheese? Fgf10 (talk) 08:21, 30 July 2015 (UTC)


 * See the very good answer with references provided by Nanonic when this was asked on July 4: . 184.147.131.217 (talk) 18:43, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I've added an additional comment to the discussion Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2015 July 4 Nil Einne (talk) 18:08, 1 August 2015 (UTC)