Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2015 June 1

= June 1 =

St. Paul's Church, California street, near Fillmore
What is the current official name of "St. Paul's Church, California street, near Fillmore" listed here and here? Do we have an article for it?--KAVEBEAR (talk) 20:04, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
 * There is a St. Paul's Catholic Church in SF currently,, but checking it's address, it is nowhere near Fillmore, which is several miles further north. Maybe it moved?  -- Jayron 32 20:28, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I think it was Episcopalian. --KAVEBEAR (talk) 21:19, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I think I worked it out. I believe (but cannot prove yet) based on the California Street/Fillmore address that this is know the Grace Cathedral, San Francisco.  The St. Pauls name is not mentioned in our article, but it's a church, whose address is on California Street, is Episcopalian, and near the Fillmore neighborhood.  I can't find any information that it was called anything except Grace Chapel/Church/Cathedral.  But it's a church in the right locale and denomination.  There are currently no other churches in San Francisco known as St. Paul's anything except the above noted Catholic church.  There is a St. Paul's Episcopal Church in Oakland:, but that's not Fillmore either.  There may have been yet another church on California Street in Fillmore, actually named St. Pauls of a different denomination, but I can't find any modern decendant of it.  Maybe one of these leads will help.  -- Jayron 32 01:55, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Nobody who knows San Francisco would describe Grace Cathedral's location as "near Fillmore". Fillmore is in the neighborhood known as the Western Addition, whereas Grace Cathedral is nearly a mile to the east, on Nob Hill where it meets Downtown San Francisco.  It is not the same neighborhood at all.  The Western Addition is a neighborhood that attracted a lot of African American migrants in the mid-20th century.  When it was first developed, however, in the late 1800s, it had a white, middle-class population that might have supported an Episcopalian church.  The congregation had probably dispersed by the 1950s.  The Western Addition was labeled a "slum" in the 1960s and subjected to a lot of demolition and redevelopment.  It is very likely that the Episcopalian church mentioned in your sources no longer exists.  Marco polo (talk) 14:50, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
 * This old directory says it was on the south side of California St. near Steiner, which would place it in the block between Fillmore and Steiner, maybe where the Mollie Stone's Grand Central Market is now? --Cam (talk) 12:58, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I confirmed that block with this article on the church from the Call. It mentions Maxwell Reilly. --Cam (talk) 13:11, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

"Phantom saints" and demons
I found this Language Log comment which mentions that some names of demons originated from misreadings of the Bible, and some names of saints from accidental repetition by scribes copying lists. Are there any known examples of such erroneous names? 75.4.17.61 (talk) 22:21, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I may be mistaken, but I believe that several saints mentioned in the Golden Legend of the 13th century were later debunked and removed from the Roman Catholic roles of Saints. Saint Christopher may be among those who religious scholars consider to be fanciful creations and not likely real historical personages.  There may be others from that same work as well.  -- Jayron 32 01:49, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I think they may have had "Lillith" in mind, which appears in a list of animals in Isaiah 34:14, but is nonetheless thought of as a female demon. - Nunh-huh 02:11, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Ah yes, I recall that her name might simply mean "owl." 75.4.17.61 (talk) 03:37, 2 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Another mistaken saint is Saint Veronica, a name originally applied to an image of Jesus on a piece of cloth, believed to be a miraculous imprint of his face, a vera icon (true image). " By degrees, popular imagination mistook this word for the name of a person and attached thereto several legends which vary according to the country" according to the Catholic Encyclopedia. Alansplodge (talk) 11:46, 2 June 2015 (UTC)


 * The eleven thousand virgin companions of St Ursula are generally thought to have their origins in a scribal error. AlexTiefling (talk) 21:23, 2 June 2015 (UTC)


 * It's still happening. Not a saint or a demon, but a few years ago Irish police were on the lookout for a Polish man called Prawo Jazdy who had an enormous number of driving offences to his name, but kept giving different addresses so they couldn't track him down. Turned out, prawo jazdy is Polish for "driving licence".


 * And apparently, a Dutch tour guide in the Louvre was overheard directing tourists' attention to busts of the Roman emperor Inconnus. In fact, a selection of busts labelled inconnus - French for "unknown". --Nicknack009 (talk) 21:49, 2 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Have you heard the one about the foreign exchange student in the US whose favorite brand of milk was "Missing"? Contact Basemetal   here  22:10, 2 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Reminds me of the story about Ronly Bonly Jones (bottom of this page). 75.4.17.61 (talk) 22:32, 2 June 2015 (UTC)


 * There is the fictitious Saint Xynoris, product of a mistranslation by Baronius, though supposedly fixed in his lifetime: [//books.google.com/books?id=3cBEAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA449]. הסרפד  (call me Hasirpad) 00:50, 4 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Titivillus isn't just the president of the club, he's also a client. One day, he may make it so "brainfart" is mistranslated as "hair". InedibleHulk (talk) 06:47, 4 June 2015 (UTC)