Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2015 June 10

= June 10 =

International Heraldry Day
...is today. I can't find any information on it at Wikipedia. Why? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.2.111.253 (talk) 06:47, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Simply because no-one has thought to add any information, which may in turn be because it is not notable enough for its own article. If you're interested in heraldry, though, you may want to contact the folks over at WikiProject Heraldry and vexillology. --Viennese Waltz 07:41, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
 * We have an article on the International Association of Amateur Heralds, the organization who have declared today to be "International Heraldry Day". This is probably the appropriate article to contain any information about the day that can be reliably sourced. Tevildo (talk) 07:47, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

Bordenkircher v. Hayes final outcome
Does anyone know the final outcome of the defendant in the Supreme Court case of Bordenkircher v. Hayes? It was a classic case of prosecutorial vindictiveness where a guy got life in prison for a bad check. Seems like he'd be a perfect candidate for a governor's pardon at the very least, but I can't seem to find out what eventually happened to the guy. Thanks. Wknight94 talk 13:03, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
 * As of 2013, Hayes was still serving his life sentence in a Kentucky prison, see, 391 (2013). He is not shown as an inmate currently, at least through the Kentucky inmate locator website. Whether he was released or died is unknown, but he was not pardoned. I doubt very seriously that a governor would consider issuing a pardon for a three-time felon.  GregJackP   Boomer!   15:36, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I was thinking more a commuted sentence than a full pardon.  Considering rapists and killers can go free within a generation, that certainly seems reasonable for a bad-check writer - three times or not.  But that's my opinion.  Wknight94 talk 03:13, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Source sought for an Egyptian painting or drawing
I'm looking for an Egyptian painting or drawing I once saw. It depicted the encounter of Egyptian sailors with some indigenous African people. There was text supposedly spoken by the Africans (cartoon-like but w/o the bubble obviously) addressed to the Egyptians: "Have you fallen from the moon?" Contact Basemetal   here  13:04, 10 June 2015 (UTC)


 * I'm assuming you are referring to Ancient Egyptians - or are you referring to post-medieval Arab exploration of central and southern Africa? Ancient Egyptians were "indigenous African people", though they visually distinguished themselves from darker-skinned Africans from Nubia and beyond. These images are very common in art of the 18th dynasty (age of Akhenaten; Tutankhamun etc). See Book of Gates. I can't imagine why 'negroid' Africans would think Egyptians came from the moon. It sounds like a misinterpretation of part of the litany concerning the movements of the sun and moon in the Book of Gates and other texts. There is a picture of egyptians receiving a delegation from the Queen of Punt who looks like this. She appears to be seriously overweight and is rather caricatured. Paul B (talk) 13:57, 10 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes, Ancient Egyptians. Contact Basemetal   here  15:23, 10 June 2015 (UTC)


 * There seems to be a 'new age' notion that "Khemennu", a term for part of Egypt, means "land of the moon". It crops up in New Age books like The woman's encyclopedia of myths and secrets: "Upper [southern] Egypt once belonged exclusively to the lunar Goddess. It was called Khemennu, 'Land of the Moon'." Serious literature on Egypt does not seem to support this claim. It may come from some older speculation which has found its way into New Age stuff. I can well imagine that an image of Egyptians interacting with Nubians could have been printed in some New Age book with a caption in which they ask "are you from the land of the moon". But that's just a guess. Paul B (talk) 12:48, 11 June 2015 (UTC)


 * The book I saw this in had nothing to do with New Age. It was a serious book about the history of writing. It was published to coincide with a large exhibition about the history of writing somewhere in Paris maybe in the 1980s. I saw that painting while going through the book while browsing thru a public library. Since no one seems to be able to help me I'll try and drop by that place (where I haven't been for at least 15 years, roughly since I got broadband which means I hardly remember what a book is) and try to find that darn book. I hope they haven't moved things around too much. I was intrigued by that painting or drawing (1) because of the humor and (2) because it was probably among the earliest examples I've seen of people trying to get into the heads of members of another culture to try and guess how they appear to them. Now I'll have to go and find that book if only to prove I have not and never have had anything to do with New Age. Contact Basemetal   here  13:12, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Bathing and privacy in 18th Century?
I remember reading that in the 18th century, upper-class people might receive guests while they were in the bathtub. Can anyone cite works that would back this up? (I'm not asking about other activities we might think of as private or intimate--but specifically bathing.) Thanks. Herbivore (talk) 15:49, 10 June 2015 (UTC)


 * The Death of Marat comes to mind, though Jean-Paul Marat was not a member of the upper class (although he had had a successful career as a court physician), and his bath was not a normal one, but a long, daily, medicinal soaking to treat his skin disease. Still, I've always found his meeting with Charlotte Corday while bathing to be somewhat scandalous, though I don't know if it has been received that way elsewhere. -- ToE 18:04, 10 June 2015 (UTC)


 * According to the article fr:Us et coutumes à la cour de Versailles, King Louis XIV of France did receive visitors during his daily baths at Versailles, although the sourcing is weak. This more detailed article about court hygiene mentions receiving visitors while doing his business (to use a euphemism), but not while taking a bath. --Xuxl (talk) 09:01, 11 June 2015 (UTC)
 * For a twentieth century equivalent, see Mr. Churchill's Baths. Alansplodge (talk) 12:48, 11 June 2015 (UTC)


 * One odd fact of history is that the rich and powerful often had less privacy. Take the groom of the stool for example.  They seemed to regard servants approximately like we think of pets, in that it didn't matter if they saw you naked.  So, having servants around as they bathe would be no big deal (although perhaps they would avoid the opposite gender).  But for those of their own social standing, more modesty might well have applied. StuRat (talk) 12:53, 11 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Note that the aforementioned groom of the stool was no mere pet, but rather a very powerful confident of his majesty. 101.160.164.9 (talk) 14:04, 14 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I think you mean confidant. --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  19:25, 14 June 2015 (UTC)


 * It wasn't just 18th century nobility. Lyndon Johnson, the US President, used to famously insist that people he was talking to follow him into the bathroom while he immodestly took care of his bodily functions in front of them. Jayron 32 19:59, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

Soul(s)
Hello, I've been advised to bring this here. The link will give an understanding of the question below

Q: Buddha, assuming he knew he was 'liberated', before death. Having this in mind, what/how can I classify a person who's not just 'non-liberated' but also following their destiny/going straight to Hell for eternity?

Space Ghost (talk) 18:42, 10 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Using the terminology of what religion? As was pointed out at WP:RDL, in Hinduism, Jainism, and Buddhism -- where your liberated vs non-liberated terminology is used -- there is not a concept of eternal damnation. -- ToE 18:49, 10 June 2015 (UTC)


 * In general. Because I don't recall coming across any religion stating the eternal damnation; except Christianity but they don't use any specific word(s). -- Space Ghost (talk) 18:56, 11 June 2015 (UTC)