Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2015 June 14

= June 14 =

Rentier state
is this not the total opposite of how the term was used by Marx and Lenin? Our article:


 * In political science and international relations theory, a rentier state is a state which derives all or a substantial portion of its national revenues from the rent of indigenous resources to external clients.

By contrast, Lenin:


 * For that reason the term “rentier state” (Rentnerstaat), or usurer state, is coming into common use in the economic literature that deals with imperialism. The world has become divided into a handful of usurer states and a vast majority of debtor states. (...)

And the BSE (Great Soviet Encyclopedia):

What's going on? Asmrulz (talk) 01:02, 14 June 2015 (UTC)
 * ...an imperialist usurer state that enriches itself by exporting capital to other states, primarily those that are economically underdeveloped and dependent. The financial oligarchy of the rentier state appropriates a considerable portion of the national income of debtor states in the form of profits (interest and dividends) from direct capital investments, coercive loans, insurance, transport, and other services that it provides to these countries. The enrichment of the financial oligarchy of the rentier state at the expense of the peoples of other countries is one of the causes of the intensification of the contradictions of monopoly capitalism.
 * Taking advantage of the tremendous, chronic need of the developing countries for capital to develop and reorganize their national economies, the rentier states make their investments and loans conditional on the acceptance of political demands aimed at preserving reactionary political regimes and backward socioeconomic structures.
 * This discrepancy is mentioned in rentier capitalism, but it might be a useful addition to the rentier state article, with appropriate sourcing. Talk:Rentier state is probably the best place to discuss this. Tevildo (talk) 08:33, 14 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Done, but I'm not happy some Iranian guy writing in the 70's (or his translator) got to hijack Lenin Asmrulz (talk) 14:22, 14 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Since Lenin hijacked Marx, it seems only fair. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 02:01, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I think you'll find, Bugs, that in those particular writings Lenin was channelling Hobson or Hilferding or both. Itsmejudith (talk) 11:11, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

Isaac Newton's languages
Did Newton know any other languages besides english and latin?Rich (talk) 06:44, 14 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Greek (presumably classical): AndyTheGrump (talk) 06:48, 14 June 2015 (UTC)
 * And Hebrew too, apparently: AndyTheGrump (talk) 06:51, 14 June 2015 (UTC)
 * He also invented a language of his own: AndyTheGrump (talk) 06:58, 14 June 2015 (UTC)
 * "Newton could read French only with difficulty" 184.147.134.128 (talk) 13:06, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

Anti-ISIS social media collaborative efforts?
Whenever I read about ISIS, the journalist is almost certain to mention ISIS' slick social-media machine.

This got me thinking: Has anyone attempted a collaborative, grassroots-based mass effort to produce anti-ISIS social media material (be it on youtube, twitter, or facebook) to counter the ISIS recruitment machine? Particularly amongst the many muslims who despise ISIS? If yes, could someone give me some links? If not, than why would this critical potential approach have been ignored?

(I'm not referring to the brigade who flag ISIS beheading videos on youtube as "terms of use violations", the understatement of the century . I'm asking about efforts to produce anti-ISIS social media stuff which could hopefully go viral amongst muslims) 101.160.164.9 (talk) 13:56, 14 June 2015 (UTC)


 * There is a lot of anti-ISIS stuff to be found, but the problem is that ISIS is a sort of sect/cult within Islam that is hard to eradicate. It is similar to why the Pope won't be able to convince Protestants to come back to the Vatican. Religion is at heart irrational,  since society tolerates religion and hence allows irrational arguments in favor of it, it is very hard to argue against "undesirable irrational arguments".


 * A better strategy is to create a large number of fake ISIS sites and then lure people to join such fake groups. Count Iblis (talk) 14:21, 14 June 2015 (UTC)


 * The U.S. does seem to be missing a variety of useful tactics used by Russia in Ukraine (most recently, 'crowdfunding' the rebels ). Despite initial pioneering efforts with the First Earth Battalion, the U.S. seems to have stepped away from such unconventional thinking.  But the Russians basically took Crimea by a sort of peaceful war straight out of the FEB manual, and started off with such tactics in Eastern Ukraine, and even now has an obvious morale benefit by making the war a more 'political' activity.  I feel like the more conventional their combat becomes, the less success they have. Wnt (talk) 12:02, 15 June 2015 (UTC)


 * The strategy so far seems to be vaguely attributing claims in stories to "a Twitter account associated with ISIS" or similar, instead of directly linking to the Tweet, as most online outlets do for virtually anybody else, famous or not.
 * If someone says they're angry at Game of Thrones or angry about deflated footballs, you can bet you'll know exactly who. At war with America? No spotlight for you! Not even a quote, most times. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:07, 17 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Even when the story is precisely about a group identifying and removing ISIS Twitter accounts, no specific accounts (except the "Anonymous" ones) are mentioned. Sort of a human version of security through obscurity. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:14, 17 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Here's a story about a how-to guide for "fighting" ISIS online. Apparently the largest "Anonymous" endeavour yet. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:18, 17 June 2015 (UTC)


 * (after e.c. with Inedible Hulk's last post): I found no such notable attempt, but perhaps related are also collaborative efforts such as Operation Charlie Hebdo and Operation Ice ISIS by Anonymous. ---Sluzzelin talk  01:21, 17 June 2015 (UTC)


 * These answers seem to be specifically what the OP excluded, though in academic terms it should be interesting. When we simply look at ISIS, it seems like they have horrendously wrong ideas, even compared to the West.  Yet ISIS uses the tools (advocacy, voluntary recruitment) of those who are right, while the West uses the tools (censorship, exit restrictions) of those who are wrong.  Now the question comes up of whether those who prevail in a historical argument are those who believe the right ideas or those whose communications strategy reflects their idea that they are right.  Meanwhile, it appears that anti-ISIS message is left to those like Pamela Gellar.  Well, better some advocate against them than none at all. Wnt (talk) 15:23, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
 * The OP excluded those who want to keep ISIS propaganda hidden. My second answer was about those who want to expose it. The first one was about people in the middle, who want to counterspin it, illuminate the new message and bury the source. They were only half-excluded. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:38, 17 June 2015 (UTC)


 * If the OP considers media promoting America, booze, bacon, democracy, women, naked women, Jesus or whatever else ISIS doesn't stand for as counter to it, there's an (over)abundance online. I don't even know where to start. I guess at the very top. Or the very bottom. But Googling any of those terms, with or without "advocacy", will find countless more examples. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:56, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Approximate number of STANAG magazines manufactured annually in the US
I'm trying to find the approximate number of STANAG magazines manufactured annually in the US. Alternatively, the number of such magazines sold annually would also suffice as an approximation, since imports and exports are essentially negligible. I found some excellent data regarding the number of firearms manufactured, but can't seem to find any useful data regarding firearm magazines.

I previously asked this question one week ago. My other car is a cadr (talk) 15:12, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

UK Military Training
Is the training of the UK's military personnel routinely outsourced? I would have thought that they would have done everything 'in house' but this article states the following:

"Ascent, a consortium of the two firms Lockheed Martin and Babcock International, was originally awarded the 25-year contract to train aircrew in 2008. The contract meant that up to 480 pilots and their crew would receive “core training” – including training exercises on how to fly helicopters and jets and use weapon systems."

"Auditors found that civil servants during the early years of the contract had “significant concerns” about Ascent’s performance. MoD officials were worried by rising costs and delays as well as the quality of the training, the report said, and “the department was concerned that Ascent was showing corporate and individual behaviours that undermined its partnering abilities”."

Anyone able to shed any light on the matter? Thanks. asyndeton  talk  15:23, 14 June 2015 (UTC)


 * I know that the Army Air Corps has for years employed civilian instructors to teach basic flying - it's a lot cheaper than keeping servicemen in the post. "At the DHFS (Defence Helicopter Flying School), much of the training effort is contracted out to FBS Ltd - a consortium of Flight Refuelling Aviation, Bristow Helicopters Ltd and Serco Defence. All DHFS military and civilian instructors are trained by the Central Flying School (Helicopter) Squadron."  Alansplodge (talk) 16:47, 14 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Like a lot of countries, a lot of things are offered to contract. In addition to the UK Military Flying Training System; recruitment, language courses, the Military Annual Training Test,, IED detection training, signalling training, pre-deployment training Martime Warfare training etc. It's also interesting that the Royal Navy no longer directly manage any of the three naval bases in the UK anymore. Portsmouth is run by BAESystems, Devonport by Babcock and Faslane/Clyde by a partnership of Babcock and Serco. These are all nominally due to funding cuts as part of SDRs/SDSRs and the various governments preference of tendering for private finance initiatives. Nanonic (talk) 17:29, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

Image needed
Can anybody point me to a free-to-use image of Admiral Sir George Augustus Elliot, KCB (25 September 1813 – 13 December 1901)? Note that he had at least two more famous ancestors with the same name, which has made searching fiendishly difficult (for me at any rate). His is the only mugshot that I'm missing from the members of the 1859 Royal Commission on the Defence of the United Kingdom. PS: take a look at the facial hair of William Jervois - it's a blast. Alansplodge (talk) 16:37, 14 June 2015 (UTC)
 * This page has a portrait of "Admiral Sir George Elliot", dated to 1892, which would be too late to be of his ancestors. - Lindert (talk) 16:52, 14 June 2015 (UTC)
 * undated image, but right dates given for person. Source of image not given. 184.147.134.128 (talk) 17:18, 14 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Splendid! Thank you both. Alansplodge (talk) 09:17, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

Finding an original source
Can anybody help me find the original source listed here in the footnotes of this 1865 book: "Since the above was written, I have seen the following notice of Tenooe in The Friend of February 5, 1864, published monthly at Honolulu, and edited by the Rev. Mr. Damon, the excellent Seamen's Chaplain in that city. Tenooe was in San Francisco when I passed through it on my return from the Islands, and I heard a good report of him from Mr. Rowell. It seems he went back to his native isles, and finished his course there. The Queen's Hospital is at Honolulu. 'Died at Queen's Hospital, January 15, 1864...'"--KAVEBEAR (talk) 23:34, 14 June 2015 (UTC)
 * The Friend was a missionary newspaper, it has been digitized by MissionHouses.org. The issue you want is here. Nanonic (talk) 23:40, 14 June 2015 (UTC)
 * FYI - The death notice is on the last page. Nanonic (talk) 23:45, 14 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks!--KAVEBEAR (talk) 03:14, 15 June 2015 (UTC)