Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2015 March 24

= March 24 =

brother jonathan
How can I contact the author of the article on Brother Jonathan?

Grafton Tanquary The Jonathan Heritage Foundation The Jonathan Club Los Angeles, CA — Preceding unsigned comment added by Grafton tanquary (talk • contribs) 08:10, 24 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Each article may have hundreds of authors. If you see a flaw in an article, bring it up on its discussion page, e.g. Talk:Brother Jonathan. —Tamfang (talk) 08:19, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
 * To see who has edited an article, (and what they did), visit Brother Jonathan, and click on View History in the top-right. This will bring up a summary list of all edits, and who made on them. Click on the Talk link to leave that person a message. To see what the edit changed, click on the "prev" link. Also, if you click on the article's Talk link, you are taken to a page where you can leave comments/queries/corrections etc about the article . LongHairedFop (talk) 10:42, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
 * If you want to edit the article go ahead, just make sure your source is reliable. If your are adding new information, the easiest way is to add immediately after your change, this provides a footnote to the webpage you took the information from, and allows other editors to check that it is factually correct, and other readers to look up more information if they want. See WP:CITE for more information about references, but don't worry if you make a mistake; it will be corrected soon enough. LongHairedFop (talk) 10:53, 24 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Why do you want to contact the author(s)? If you think there is an error that should be corrected please just identify it. If you want to know where a piece of information in the article came from, you will have to go through the edit history to find who added it. If you tell us what it is another editor may be able to help. Paul B (talk) 13:52, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

This wonderful tool tells us that the most prolific author, both in terms of number of edits and amount added to the text, has edited anonymously. You're unlikely to be successful in contacting them. #2 on the list is User:Wighson. Click here to liaise with them directly, although note that they've not edited regularly in over a year. Please do not edit the article yourself, unless you're confident you fit into the exceptions in this essential Wikipedia guideline. Thanks, --Dweller (talk) 14:02, 24 March 2015 (UTC) edited --Dweller (talk) 14:11, 24 March 2015 (UTC)


 * I don't see how representing the Jonathan Club makes one COI for the Brother Jonathan article. The two have no connection beyond the fact that the former is named from the mythological latter figure. Paul B (talk) 14:05, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Amended. --Dweller (talk) 14:11, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

According to the brothers Hopper (first brother, second brother) in their book The Puritan Gift, the phrase, 'Art thou troubled, brother Jonathan?' was a mocking question, lifted from the Bible, and used by Cavaliers to mock Puritans, ultimately resulting in the term 'brother Jonathan' being applied to Puritans and, by extension, Americans. Before Uncle Sam, apparently, there was brother Jonathan as a caricature embodiment of a generic American (rather than 'the national emblem [sic.] of the glorious states of New England'). Apparently various trains and steamers were named after this character.

I have my doubts about this assertion; the wonders of the internet allow me to check the bible quickly, and the nearest that I can get to the phrase is from 2 Samuel 1 v. 26: I am distressed for thee, my brother Jonathan: very pleasant hast thou been unto me: thy love to me was wonderful, passing the love of women. 37.25.46.84 (talk) 18:10, 24 March 2015 (UTC)


 * The actual quotation from The Puritan Gift is "How did the expression originate? The most likely origin is the Biblical saying 'I am distressed for thee, my brother Jonathan'. Used as a term of abuse for their Bible-thumping Puritan opponents by Royalists during the English Civil War, it was applied by British officers to the rebellious colonists during the American Revolution" (p.63). Paul B (talk) 20:30, 24 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Many thanks - I'd misremembered the quotation and given my book away. From memory, isn't there a bit more about the term in the book? I seem to remember that John Bull came into it somehow. 37.25.46.84 (talk) 11:00, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

Pirates and venereal diseases
I watched a documentary on H2 (TV Network), and the documentary was about pirates. One thing that lodged in my mind was that European pirates of the 1700s could not bring women on board of the ship. At the same time, there were venereal diseases, and the treatment for them was pretty crude and painful by modern standards. Could it be that the men had sex with each other, as men would do in modern-day prisons? Or could it be that the men had sex with local women on land? Or could it be that the venereal diseases had spread around non-sexually? 140.254.136.157 (talk) 13:49, 24 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes, all those things could be, though diseases that are "spread around non-sexually", are not typically called "venereal diseases", even if they affect the genital area. Paul B (talk) 13:54, 24 March 2015 (UTC)


 * No, I meant that a venereal disease that someone acquired by sexual means landed on someone else by non-sexual means (i.e. sharing drinking cups, sharing clothes, poor sanitary conditions in the 1700s). I am wondering which one could have been the most likely culprit of the venereal diseases? Did the male pirates in the 1700s had sex with each other? Is it still called "gay sex" when you merely have someone of the same sex sexually stimulate you by performing fellatio? 140.254.136.157 (talk) 14:16, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

Ye scurvy swab! Ve poirates hast no truck viv 'gay sex' an' 'fellatio' - nae, ve leave such foul practices to foreign curs - arr - ven good Sir Dick zed Let us bang these dogs of Seville 'ee baint talkin' 'bout 'avin' sex vith each utha! Ye got a durty mind, ye. Arr! 37.25.46.84 (talk) 19:27, 24 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Some historians, notably B.R. Burg in, have suggested that homosexuality was common amongst pirates. As you will see from our article on buccaneers, other historians question this position. We certainly know that homosexual behaviour is common in other environments where men are unable to meet women for extended periods of time - see our article on situational sexual behavior. It is certainly possible for venereal diseases to spread in such all male populations. RomanSpa (talk) 22:06, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

As a pirate myself, I can assure you that we pirates are not interested in gay sex at all, other than, of course, lesbianism, which is entirely normal and a delight to everyone. We are, of course, highly-sexed, as this documentary makes clear. 37.25.46.84 (talk) 12:31, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

"Rum, buggery, and the lash" referred to the British Navy rather than pirates, as I understood it. 50.0.205.75 (talk) 00:03, 26 March 2015 (UTC)


 * This and this give some indication that the Cabin boy had some additional relevant duties. Ian.thomson (talk) 00:10, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
 * That reminds me of a Cheech and Chong bit from a few decades ago. They're watching TV and there's a pirate movie on. One of the crew (perhaps a cabin boy) is to be punished:
 * [sound of whip} Oh!
 * [sound of whip] Oh!!
 * [sound of whip] Oh!!! YES!!!!
 * ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:18, 26 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Regarding the general question of venereal disease on sailing ships (regardless of whether they were legally licensed and registered or pirate ships), the article History of syphilis may be an interesting read. -- Jayron 32 00:43, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

Incorrect British Empire Medal List
I am writing to you concerning this page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Recipients_of_the_British_Empire_Medal

I find this page incorrect and incomplete as there are 293 people awarded the British Empire Medal as of June 2012.

I would like to add my deceased grandfather to this page.

My grandfather was Staff Sergeant John Farrugia who served in the Royal Army Service Corps.

He was awarded the B.E.M medal and I have an army statement showing this and the initials B.E.M atfer his name on this statement.

Therefore please update this list at your earliest convenience to include his name.

If you do not update your records accurately concerning this matter I will look to seek legal advice and also bring this to the attention of the local media how you are not giving the recognition to those honoured by missing their names of this list.

Thanks

Mr Matthew Farrugia

193.62.24.120 (talk) 14:57, 24 March 2015 (UTC) 24/03/2015 at 14:57 GMT


 * No threats of legal action have any validity here. It seems strange that the name and Corps you mention doesn't have an entry in the British Forces war records site but perhaps your grandfather is one of the John Farrugias mentioned there. You are powerless to make Wikipedia include any names, but all you have to do is find an official site that mentions your grandfather's award, or a press report, and we will gladly add his name to the list. If fact, you could do it yourself. This is the encyclopaedia that anyone can edit.  D b f i r s   15:26, 24 March 2015 (UTC)


 * I should add that the Category:Recipients_of_the_British_Empire_Medal is not an article giving a complete list of everyone who received the medal. It's a category. Its role is to group together everyone with the medal who has an article on Wikipedia. We also have categories like "People from London", but that's not a list of everyone alive or dead who ever lived in London (which would be impossible). If your grandfather is not independently sufficiently famous in his own right he will not have an article about him, and so will not be in the category. Paul B (talk) 15:35, 24 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Sorry, yes, I missed noticing that it was a category not a list. Your grandfather must be notable in his own right to have his own article. Even if we created a list, the only surnames beginning with F would be Fenwick, Ralph; Filer, Ernest Francis; Files, George Edward; Formby, John Raymond; Foster, Ronald Charles; Fry, Arthur Ernest; according to WW2 awards but perhaps the medal was not a wartime award?  D b f i r s   15:44, 24 March 2015 (UTC)


 * John Mary Farrugia, listed as "Clerk of Works, Air Ministry Works Department, Kalafrana, Malta", was awarded the BEM on 2 June 1943, according to the London Gazette. It was in the Civil Division, though, not the Military Division. If that is him, then neither his position nor the fact that he was awarded a low-level honour would appear to indicate on their own that he meets the notability criteria. Proteus (Talk) 14:06, 25 March 2015 (UTC)


 * 293 were awarded the medal in June 2012. See British Empire Medal. I don't know whether a total count is recorded. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:44, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

Women's Headgear
Did the headgear common Christian women wore in earlier centuries have a religious meaning? Like Islamic Hijab? Thanks for comments. --Omidinist (talk) 15:26, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
 * It was never quite the same as hijab, but our article Christian headcovering makes it clear that all or most churches required women to cover their heads, until about the 1960s. Indeed, until then, women in Christian-majority countries routinely covered their heads in public. Itsmejudith (talk) 15:48, 24 March 2015 (UTC)


 * In addition to the headcoverings worm by the laity, there's also the wimple, worn by many current nuns as part of the religious habit. SemanticMantis (talk) 16:35, 24 March 2015 (UTC)


 * See also the mantilla for Catholics (more common in Mediterranean countries I believe) and the wedding veil. Alansplodge (talk) 21:28, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

Masculine versions of female names
A la "Julia" (feminine of Julius) or "Pauline" (feminine of Paul). The thought occurred to me while discussing Vin Diesel's naming of his daughter after the late Paul Walker. What masculine names are verifiably derived from older names for females? Evan (talk&#124;contribs) 20:30, 24 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Have you tried looking through any of those "lists of boys names" that would be all over the internet, and see if any of them look like masculized feminine names? I was thinking Mario (given name) was a good candidate, but it really isn't - it has a separate origin from "Maria". I would suspect that if there are any, it's a pretty short list. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 20:46, 24 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Hymen ? (I bet Hymen Lipman had trouble with bullies growing up. Maybe some of them called him "pencil neck" and gave him ideas ?) StuRat (talk) 21:42, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Hymen is the Greek god of marriage - god, not goddess. Hymen also is or was a fairly common Jewish given name. I don't know what that version's origin is. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 22:10, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
 * According to this, "Hyman" as a Jewish name comes from "man". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 22:13, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
 * That's no consolation to Misty Hyman. -- Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  22:14, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
 * No, it doesn't say that. It says it's a variant of Hyam (Chayyim = "Life"), influenced by Yiddish "man" = "Man". --ColinFine (talk) 11:52, 29 March 2015 (UTC)


 * See Reference desk/Archives/Language/2013 July 3.
 * —Wavelength (talk) 21:46, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Ah, excellent. I should have checked the archives. Thanks. Evan (talk&#124;contribs) 19:32, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

Unconscious thought theory
Many years ago I discovered that my brain solves problems quite efficiently in the “backoffice” whilst I am consciously thinking about something entirely unrelated. Presumably my experience is no exception. As a consequence, I now often just analyse a tricky problem and synthesise one / more solutions (there are cases where none of the solutions is without major disadvantages and there are cases where there does not seem to be a solution in loop 1 of the analysis / synthesis phase) and then just ignore the matter.

At some random time later - during dinner / in the shower / whilst asleep / whilst sitting in my favourite wine-bar idly gazing at the Gothic vaulting - a solution (not necessarily the best) pops up unexpectedly paralleled by some “Eureka” surge of cerebral bliss.

I suspect that there is a term for this, but googling does not get me far. We have an article on Unconscious thought theory, but this seems to imply that UT is best at solving trivial stuff / that it does not exist / that it is not superior to deliberate mental processes.

In my case I have been / am solving problems in database design and digital 3D modeling, many of which I would not consider to be trivial. Of course, the last point may well be correct, but why waste time and effort on conscious thought when you can “outsource” it to neurons lazing around in the subconscious.

Sorry about the lengthy pre(r)amble. Question: 1) which other WP references may be useful to research that? 2) is there a less clunky name (colloquial) than unconscious thought theory? 3) POV and anecdotal, but is this “phenomenon” experienced / utilised habitually by other ref deskers? --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 21:28, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
 * There might be something about stress and how it affects thinking. I think this was explored on Brain Games recently. Notice how you come up with these answers in non-stressful situations, or at least when you're focused on something else. Anecdotally, after a long day at work, solutions will often occur to me on the drive home, when I'm focused on traffic. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 22:06, 24 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Q.3. All the time. All my life. See Recall (memory) @ Involuntary memory retrieval. -- Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  22:12, 24 March 2015 (UTC)


 * You're talking about the subconscious, although our article on it is horrible. The phenomenon is universal, if not universally recognized. It's the source of expressions "on the tip of my tongue" and "sleep on it." If you can't think of a term or name, often the best thing is simply to leave it aside. It will then pop into your head unbidden after a while. It's the reason why people say not to make big decisions on a hurry, but to sleep on them. The subconscious can work at the problem and find solutions and objections that might not come to mind during a short focused effort of concentration.


 * Here are a list of [sources http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=sleep+on+it+the+power+of+the+subconscious&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8], some of which may be poor, but it will show the commonness of the idea. As for myself, I often think of various things that have been at question during the day as I lay down to sleep, and it does help. μηδείς (talk) 22:30, 24 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Are you confusing "subconscious" with "unconscious"? The word "subconscious" is certainly common in self-help books, but I don't think it's scientific. -- BenRG (talk) 00:58, 25 March 2015 (UTC)


 * I am using subconscious to refer to those parts of the mind not immediately the object of (or ofttimes immediately recoverable by) focus: below consciousness. I am using unconscious to refer to either the lack of consciousness at all, or those regulatory processes mediated by the brain but not accessible internally by the mind. The subconsciousness would be the place where the words we speak are spontaneously generated; we only become conscious of them when we say them or vocalize them to ourselves. has posted some great links below which I highly recommend.


 * I'm certainly not selling Freudianism or any New Age stuff. I'll mention the novelist and playwright/screenwriter Ayn Rand's The Art of Fiction which mentions "subconscious" 28 times, and which also defines the subconscious as the contents of your mind not currently accessible or accessed by conscious focus. She speaks of "stocking" the unconscious by taking time to consider notable events, actions, and subjects as you go about daily life to provide a source, sometimes only used much later, as artistic inspiration. μηδείς (talk) 01:59, 25 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Denying you are "selling" widely-discredited bullshit psychological theorists only to then cite a widely discredited bullshit political theorist on a neuroscience concept. Interesting ploy. -- Jayron 32 02:02, 25 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Jayron that's three highly hostile edits in a row, across the desks. You may not know it, but Rand wrote almost no political theory, and the book I mention has nothing to do with politics. It's a well-reviewed book on fiction writing and nothing else respected even by non-libertarians and Rand-fans. You're even confabulating strawmen, at whom you throw obscenities. What psychological theorists did I advocate? I said our article was terrible. This is uncharacteristic of you. μηδείς (talk) 02:22, 25 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Creativity and Sleep and creativity may be relevant. -- BenRG (talk) 00:58, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
 * The basic phenomenon is discussed under varying rubrics in contemporary psych literature: incubation, sub-/un-/non-conscious problem solving, mind wandering etc. So try those as search terms. Keep in mind though that while there is plenty of anecdotal evidence for such unconscious processing, there is yet no universal agreement on the mechanism, effect size, or whether it is a net negative or positive if consciously employed. And as you can expect the field is saturated with pop/outdated psychology, self-help/new-age literature. Here is a 2009 review article that provides a broad overview. Abecedare (talk) 03:55, 25 March 2015 (UTC)


 * this is a most awesome thread and you sir, are a most awesome person. Personally, I've been looking into this for a while now, from the perspective of an amateur. I've found hints of insight into the problem in many different disciplines, so you may want to broaden your interdisciplinary approach to take into account other ways of looking at the problem. For example, you may find something valuable that will help you connect the dots over at art of memory, jhāna, and flow. I would also recommend looking into some of the findings in music therapy as they may provide some additional answers. Oh, and before I forget, I've found that the neurobiological effects of physical exercise can help get you half of the way there. If I think heavily about a problem an hour before I workout, I will get some incredible insight during the workout, to the point where I have to stop exercising and write it down. Good luck. Viriditas (talk) 20:45, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

Taddea Visconti's cause of death
Is there any source saying why Taddea Visconti died at age 30? I couldn't even find whether it was natural cause or not (maybe there's some Italian source, more familiar with that than those in English). Brandmeistertalk 21:43, 24 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Italian Wikipedia doesn't say but following its sources, this one says she died in childbirth.
 * P.S. NB both the German and Italian wikipedias contract the English re the place of her burial; both say it was in the Munich Frauenkirche, though her grave has never been discovered.
 * See also (page 539) which I think says something like (I'm not good with old fonts): Anno dni MCCCLXXXI. obiit dna THADAEA fila de Mediolano, ducissa Babarie (Vxor I. Stephani I. Ingolstad.) 184.147.117.34 (talk) 23:51, 24 March 2015 (UTC)