Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2015 November 5

= November 5 =

Relationship between Porsche and Volkswagen
I was reading Volkswagen and Porsche and trying to understand the relationship between these two companies. Porsche owns a majority stake of Volkswagen and in exchanged Volkswagen management run Porsche. Isn't this extremely similar to a merger? What's the difference between all this complex manoeuvring and a regular merger? 731Butai (talk) 04:18, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
 * The obvious difference is merger requires Volkswagen acquire Porsche in entirety, not simply a majority. In some countries and exchanges, if a company (or whatever) has a super majority, probably at least 75% but generally 90% or more, they can probably forcefully acquire the rest, but in other cases they still have to obtain the remaining shares somehow. Nil Einne (talk) 07:42, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
 * I should perhaps clarify that the "somehow" would include getting shareholder approval for a merger. This will generally entail remaining shareholders receiving stock in the new larger company in proportion to their value (or perhaps with some cash). This will generally require the approval of the majority of shareholders in both companies (atlhough per the reply below, it sounds like you have the wrong companies) although it can get complicated given the various ways these things may happen, see e.g. and Shareholder oppression. Note that if it's a merger, this generally implies shareholders in each company will become shareholders in the new larger company. In fact, for if one company obtained all the stock of the other, this is generally termed an acquisition, not a merger. (But these terms can be used loosely in generally parlance. Although that's more in a reverse, something may be called an acquisition if the acquiring company is much larger. Even if the shareholders of the smaller company are being compensated in stock of the larger company.) Nil Einne (talk) 15:21, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
 * It's complex. You have to realize that there are two distinct "Porsches": the holding company and the company that actually makes cars. The company actually making cars was bought and is wholly owned by VW, thus Porsche is a brand of VW Group. The Porsche holding company (Porsche Automobil Holding SE), in turn, is the largest shareholder of VW - it held 31.5% of shares of VW in 2014 . To fully merge, Porsche holding company would have to have 100% of VW (although they could force other shareholders to sell at some threshold, as Nil Einne indicated), but that is highly unlikely for several reasons.


 * The strange situation came about as Porsche tried to acquire VW in late 2000s. It failed and accumulated enormous debts in the process. As a result, it was VW that bought Porche car-making business, while Porsche holding company remained the largest shareholder of VW (although with a reduced share).No longer a penguin (talk) 10:05, 5 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Regarding the question on how a company can force a merger, see hostile takeover and Stock swap for some information. If an entity controls the majority of voting shares in a company, it can approve a take over by itself against the partially owned company (though some countries have regulations in place that can make it a bit more difficult than just doing it...), and when it does so it merely needs to reissue new shares of the post-merger company to the former shareholders of the pre-merger company, generally at a rate commensurate with the relative values of the companies being merged.  For example, if Company A forces a merger with Company B, and A is values at about 2x what B is valued at, new shares could be issued in the new company, Company C, such that the former owners of Company A get 1 share for each share in Company C, while former owners in company B get 1 share for every 2 shares of company C.  Of course, actual regulations and laws make these things a bit more complicated than all that, but that's the gist of it.  -- Jayron 32 16:22, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Finance/Accounting Software:
What is the best finance and or accounting software available for single entry and for double entry booking? I'm searching for an offline software for PC?

I'm currently using GNUCash, I'm happy with it but the interface is quite boring. I changed from MS Excel to GNUCash but MS Excel is still the best. I'm looking for a software that I can do anything and everything in it. Something like MS Excel but like GNUCash type (if you know what I mean), a single entry system would probably be better for me...

Space Ghost (talk) 18:46, 5 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Personally I would stick to double entry because one can detect errors more easily. However, if you like the excel spread sheet, then have a look at these: List of spreadsheet software. What type of accounting are you using it for? --Aspro (talk) 19:07, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Okay I won't change either.
 * Do you have any idea of a good double entry booking system software? 'Free' as well as 'paid' one(s)? The one I have is free, and 1) it has a boring interface but its good, 2) I recall now that sometimes you have to restart the software in order to view the deducted 'Total sum' - it doesn't change the sum, even if you 'refresh' or 'save' it...
 * About spreedsheet, MS Excel provides the agility to create any single accounting system in your own way, that's all. Whereas GNU, when you enter in one of its tabs, you can't change the first top 'headings' row; 'values' are fixed... -- Space Ghost (talk) 05:33, 6 November 2015 (UTC)


 * If you're moving from GNUCash, and assuming you are using for personal &/or SOHO business use, consider the mature, open source, multi-platform (Linux, Mac, Windows, Android, Portable Apps) Money Manager EX - the free Android app is great for recording expenses on the go while preserving your financial privacy - sync with your personal, free DropBox account, if you wish, but works fine offline and no online syncs to mystery  service providers. A single SQLite database makes backup trivial. Or put portable (no install) version on USB key to access from any Windows PC (or Linux, via WINE). Store attachments (e.g., scan or smartphone photo of invoice, receipt, etc.) to any element (transaction, account, asset). Import from QIF (Quicken Interchange Format) and CSV (Comma-Separated Values) files. Export to QIF, CSV and HTML. Customize reports easily with your choice of SQL or LUA functions and HTML + JavaScript.  See user reviews on SourceForge and review on PC World. Take a look at Money Manager EX homepage -- Paulscrawl (talk) 15:40, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Aspro, Paulscrawl: Right now for personal use, business in the near future if God will's. I'm choosing Money Manager EX. Hope it is a double entry system. Thanks friends. -- Space Ghost (talk) 19:03, 6 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Looks like a good choice. Never used it myself, yet it appears very functional and straightforward  for home financing. If you get a business going,  then Money Manager may still be OK  to retain for household/family finance but for the business, go for something a lot more comprehensive like  Sage, which is very respected amongst people with small businesses. There is no one tool that is best suited for  doing  everything so by all means use two different accounting systems.  --Aspro (talk) 20:00, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Aspro, Paulscrawl: I'm/I was migrating my datas from GNUCash to MMEX. You are right in a way Aspro - cause I'm taking most of your words for it. I think GNUCash has more options. A mobile app is advantageous though; something I'll definitely need.
 * I searched for the Sage software in the market today btw, couldn't find it, do you guys know what it is called? -- Space Ghost (talk) 21:20, 7 November 2015 (UTC)
 * The latest business package seems to be called Sage One I've never used this version, so I'm not making a recommendation, but Sage has a good reputation.  D b f i r s   21:28, 7 November 2015 (UTC)
 * In my experience (UK) SAGE is the Industry leader, but you get what you pay for. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 20:17, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you . I'll throw the word out, might take few days/months/year, but it's unlikely that I'll find it. I searched for it today, everyone that heard the name was looking at me like 'I was an alien from another planet'. Most are 'using MS Excel' they replied. -- Space Ghost (talk) 21:58, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

First usage of 'white' and 'black' for skin colour?
Is the usage of 'white' and 'black' for skin colour more recent than writing i.e. can it be dated? Munci (talk) 20:48, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Αἰθίοψ ("burnt face") as a Greek term for dark-skinned Africans predates Herodotus, so was in circulation as a term as far back as recorded history goes. &#8209; iridescent 21:01, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Also, while the etymology is a bit disputed, it has been proposed that the Greek word μαύρος (mauros) meaning "black" is the root of the name for the Mauri people, from whence Mauretania, Mauritania, Moors, Morroco, etc. Strabo apparently used the term, which dates back to 1st century AD.  -- Jayron 32 21:08, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Also, for the OP to continue their research, I did find this paper from Howard University titled "Blacks in the Ancient Greek and Roman World". Maybe something there.  -- Jayron 32 21:16, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Herodotus does not nearly represent earliest written records, which is what the OP is inquiring about. In order to determine if such a usage predates all written language, one would have to make an argument based upon co-utility in comparative reconstructions, and I know of no such research or claims, nor have my searches yet turned any up (though honestly, it would not altogether surprise me if some scholar had tried to make the argument).  I'd strongly recommend, however, that this inquiry be moved to the linguistics desk (or repeated there if it runs its course here without turning up substantial sourcing) as this seems the ideal space to attract the attention of more of the variety of editor whose skills will be most germane in answering this question.  S n o w  let's rap 06:19, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Maybe Ancient Egyptian race controversy is relevant, as some scholars have claimed that ancient Egyptians referred to themselves as "black" people. This does not appear to be a widely accepted claim though. - Lindert (talk) 21:25, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the interesting responses thus far. If it gets archived without a clear answer, I'll copy it into the language desk, as Snow Rise suggested. Munci (talk) 06:15, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

Partisan Warfare and Wehrmacht Atrocities on the Eastern Front of World War II
Hi,

Hope you're all doing well. I am currently looking to gather sources relating to the Wehrmacht's involvement in atrocities in World War II and its anti-partisan activities, especially in relation to the Eastern Front. Which sources (feel free to email me if necessary) would you recommend? Both books and journal articles are great. Just for the purposes of comparison, I am looking for sources similar to the below:
 * Widening the Circle: General Weikersthal and the War of Annihilation, 1941–42
 * Hawks, Doves and Tote Zonen: A Wehrmacht Security Division in Central Russia, 1943
 * Life and Death in the Demiansk Pocket: The 123rd Infantry Division in Combat and Occupation

In other words, both case studies of individual units and general overviews of the subject are much appreciated.

Thanks very much for your help, GABHello! 23:41, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Looking for an old sci fi book
(Hoping SciFi counts as Humanities): I'm looking for biblio info on a young adult sci fi book, published in hardback somewhere around 1960. I remember almost nothing about the plot except that the main event was Humankind's first encounter with an alien species; basically the two species originated on opposite sides of the galaxy and finally discovered each other after concluding that there were no other sentient beings -- there's a climactic meeting near the end. I know that's not much to go on, but any pointers would be appreciated! -- Elphion (talk) 23:54, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Not sure if this is it, but it does remind me of Murray Leinster's First Contact. It wouldn't have been a YA work per se, but I think I read it as a wee lad and it was adapted for the Dimension X radio show which I binged on when I found it on the Internet Archive a few years ago.  FlowerpotmaN &middot;( t ) 19:53, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Interesting, and the title rings a bell; but that's not it. (There would have been no "dirty jokes" for the intended audience!)  It was book length, not a novelette, and what I remember is that the encounter comes at the very end, with the hero looking forward to the opening horizons and the possibilities of the advance of culture on both sides. -- Elphion (talk) 00:03, 7 November 2015 (UTC)
 * You could check these: Category:1950s science fiction novels, Category:1960s science fiction novels, I looked at a few of them, but no luck so far. Ssscienccce  (talk) 07:33, 7 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, I've been looking at those. I think the book I'm after is Stadium for the Stars Stadium Beyond the Stars, but I need to find a copy to check.  Thanks for suggestions! -- Elphion (talk) 08:19, 7 November 2015 (UTC)


 * The wording of the description reminds me of a short story, possibly by Asimov. The setting is a distant future in which humanity has diversified into, if not separate species, a large number of distinct subspecies.  A ship, boldly going where no humans have gone before, meets another ship with very strange crew; everyone thinks "wow, nonhuman intelligence at last!" until the biochemists find that they're human too.  The two ships represent branches of humanity that spread around the galaxy in opposite directions (avoiding the core?). —Tamfang (talk) 02:12, 8 November 2015 (UTC)