Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2016 April 2

= April 2 =

Augustus II the Strong
Why did Augustus II the Strong seek the Polish crown? What motivated him to take the role besides backing from Austria and Russia?--The Emperor&#39;s New Spy (talk) 04:04, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
 * He was born into a political family, so grew up watching others strive to move up the ladder. Leaves the impression that up's the way to go. Can't get much higher than King. Seemed to like founding fancy buildings across wide stretches of land, which would've been far tougher for a mere strongman than a powerful one. Bending horseshoes is a fine life, too, but not for everyone. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:31, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
 * In his family, the highest office he could hope to attain was Elector of Saxony. Both King and Grand Duke were higher positions than mere Elector (officially also a common duke).  His election is an interesting contrast with that of Henryk Walezy whose election as King of Poland/Grand Duke of Lithuania came something as an unexpected chore for him.  It was negotiated by his brother and mother (probably more his mother) in order to strengthen a Franco-Ottoman alliance especially against Russia; Henry wanted almost nothing to do with the job and held it only begrudgingly; to the point where as soon as he heard his brother died, he snuck out in the middle of the night to France to claim his throne there, not even leaving so much as a resignation letter for the Polish.  -- Jayron 32 03:09, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

President of the United States and the 22nd amendment to the Constitution
In the United States, the 22nd amendment says that a single person can be elected President only twice. It does not say that the terms of office should be consecutive. Does this mean that theoretically Jimmy Carter or Bush #41 could still be elected President? --Pxos (talk) 12:19, 2 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Yes. Both Carter and Bush 41 are eligible to run for a second term. Blueboar (talk) 13:19, 2 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Grover Cleveland served two discontinuous terms as the US president, 1885 — 1889 and 1893 — 1897. However, that was before the 22nd Amendment (1955) which limits US presidents to two terms. LongHairedFop (talk) 14:42, 2 April 2016 (UTC)


 * I think I see a flaw in that Amendment. It looks to me like a President could be elected twice, then serve as an unelected President as many times as they want, by being elected VP and have the Pres removed from office in some way (forced to resign, killed, or removed by Congress).  And there's always the Putin method, of having a figurehead President while he made all the actual decisions. StuRat (talk) 15:27, 2 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Who would put him on her ticket again after he killed the first president? Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 17:41, 2 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Surprisingly, women seem to line up to marry a man convicted of killing his previous wife. StuRat (talk) 18:56, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Even those men who were not named Henry the Eighth. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 19:17, 2 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Henry VIII was never convicted of anything, and, as any fule kno, the wives who immediately followed the beheaded ones died natural deaths. DuncanHill (talk) 22:30, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Convicted or not, he killed 3 of them. So it could be said that marrying Henry was a 50-50 proposition. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 04:19, 3 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Divorced, beheaded, died. Divorced, beheaded, survived. Only two were executed, as every schoolchild knows. Who is the third, Bugs? DuncanHill (talk) 09:38, 3 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Every British schoolchild. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 12:08, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Oh, yeh, I had forgotten that one of them died from carrying his child. So he didn't directly kill her. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 19:17, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
 * And the two who were beheaded had formally ceased to be his spouse by the time they died. Anne Boleyn's marriage to Henry was declared null and void 5 days before her death, and Catherine Howard's was also annulled.  So, technically, Henry never executed any of his "wives", only two of his ex-wives (or, more properly, his never-were wives).  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  01:05, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Our article Wives of Henry VIII says that his marriage to Catherine Howard was not annulled. Proteus (Talk) 09:18, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Catherine Howard's infobox says married 1540, annulled 1541. --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  09:58, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
 * User:Proteus, I've queried this discrepancy @ Talk:Catherine Howard. --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  21:48, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
 * And I've now resolved it with references. The marriage was never formally annulled, although she was stripped of her title Queen, which was a source of confusion even at the time.  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  21:46, 6 April 2016 (UTC)


 * I'm scratching my head. I was sure there was a clause somewhere to the effect that no one not eligible to the Presidency can be Vice President either. —Tamfang (talk) 19:39, 2 April 2016 (UTC)


 * 12th Amendment, last sentence, says exactly that. However, there is a flaw.  The 22nd Amendment does not prohibit a person who has served two terms from being the president, only from being elected president: the wording is "No person shall be elected who...".  But the wording in the 12th Amendment is "constitutionally ineligible to the office of President".  I think the intent must have been that the 22nd Amendment would make a 2-term president "constitutionally ineligible", but given that it doesn't explicitly say so, someone could argue that Stu's scenario is legitimate. --69.159.61.172 (talk) 21:04, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Or, they could be elected president once, serve as VP and become president on the death of the incumbent any number of times, and then be elected president for a second time, which is within the law as written without ambiguity (though probably not as intended). MChesterMC (talk) 09:55, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Not if the dying president lasted less than two years, I think. —Tamfang (talk) 08:57, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

Named yellow
I am hoping to find someone with the name "yellow" - given or surname. Ideally an author. I haven't managed to track anyone down. I can find most other colours. Anyone know of such a person? (Nickname would do at a pinch.) -- SGBailey (talk) 17:41, 2 April 2016 (UTC)


 * See Flavia (gens).—Wavelength (talk) 17:46, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
 * See "Yellow Emperor".—Wavelength (talk) 17:48, 2 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Not really a human, but there's Old Yeller. And there was ca. 1900 comic strip character called The Yellow Kid. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 18:23, 2 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Not an author, but Saffron Burrows, if you accept saffron as yellow. Adam Bishop (talk) 18:40, 2 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Yellow Tanabe, Yellow Yeiyah, and Quinoline Yellow (musician) are all that I can find on Wikipedia, via Special:PrefixIndex and grepping enwiki-latest-all-titles-in-ns0. Yellow Tanabe also reminded me of the well known author with the pen name Banana Yoshimoto. -- BenRG (talk) 18:51, 2 April 2016 (UTC)


 * There is also Canaan Banana. Adam Bishop (talk) 19:33, 2 April 2016 (UTC)


 * "They call me Mellow Yellow...quite right". StuRat (talk) 18:53, 2 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Also, most anyone named Amber. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 19:15, 2 April 2016 (UTC)


 * .. or Buttercup.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:51, 3 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Will you accept the surname Gelb? —Tamfang (talk) 19:40, 2 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Also Huang (surname), '...a Chinese surname that means "Yellow"' and Bowie (surname), '...from the Gaelic nickname buidhe, meaning "yellow"'. Alansplodge (talk) 20:23, 2 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Yellowbeard. StuRat (talk) 20:30, 2 April 2016 (UTC)


 * The mention of that film brings back some memories . In the book The Caine Mutiny and the subsequent film and stage play L.C. Queeg's nickname is "Old Yellowstain" MarnetteD&#124;Talk 20:35, 2 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Better than "Old Brownstain", I suppose. :-) StuRat (talk) 20:49, 2 April 2016 (UTC)


 * While it is sparse there is some info here including a coat of arms. MarnetteD&#124;Talk 20:38, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

Thanks guys (of either sex) -- SGBailey (talk) 22:11, 2 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Not an author, but a simple church member mentioned in a small religious publication: Yellow Fish, a member of a Christian mission to Indians in Oklahoma, circa 1900. Nyttend (talk) 03:00, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
 * King Yellowman is another candidate, if the list is still open. Tevildo (talk) 08:12, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Any relation to The King in Yellow? —Tamfang (talk) 07:04, 4 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Strange that no-one has mentioned Yellowman.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:30, 3 April 2016 (UTC)


 * I'm nominating Chief Yellowhorse. --Xuxl (talk) 14:16, 3 April 2016 (UTC)


 * A quick check on a directory website suggests that there are plenty of them about: http://www.192.com/atoz/people/surnames/yellow/50/ 217.44.50.87 (talk) 14:41, 3 April 2016 (UTC)


 * If German is OK, there are some names at de:Gelb (Begriffsklärung).Sjö (talk) 13:49, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

Persons who held a public office in two different countries
Always wanted to find someone who held a public office in more than one countries. I had little success. Ueutyi (talk) 20:53, 2 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Well, of course there are lots of examples where countries merged or broke up to form new countries. For example, Vaclav Havel was president of Czechoslovakia, then of the Czech Republic.  But I presume that sort of thing is not what Ueutyi is asking for. --69.159.61.172 (talk) 21:08, 2 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Jan Smuts and Robert Menzies both served in the British War Cabinet during World War 2, as well as serving as Prime Ministers of South Africa and Australia respectively. 217.44.50.87 (talk) 21:23, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
 * In those days, the concept of "Britain" extended to its Dominions. Not sure about Canadians, South Africans, New Zealanders etc, but Australians were British subjects until we created our own Australian citizenship law in 1949.  Menzies was famous for having described himself as "British to the bootstraps", so I'd be surprised if he would accept that he was holding public office in "a different country" when he was in the British War Cabinet.  It was only in 1999, in Sue v Hill, that the High Court of Australia ruled that the UK is "a foreign power" in relation to Australia (as least for the relevant section of the Constitution).  The whole question of when Australia became an independent, sovereign nation has been mired in controversy forever, and there is still no generally accepted date.


 * But if we accept for the purposes of this question that the UK is "a different country" from the other members of the Commonwealth, then there are many cases of former Commonwealth politicians being awarded peerages in the UK House of Lords. Richard Casey, Baron Casey was in turn an Australian politician, a British diplomat, a life peer of the UK House of Lords, and finally Governor-General of Australia.  Sir George Reid was Prime Minister of Australia, and on retirement he returned to his birth country England and was elected to the UK House of Commons.  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  22:02, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
 * In 1976 I saw a Canadian passport that said Les citoyens canadiens sont des sujets britanniques. —Tamfang (talk) 07:05, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
 * That was correct in 1976. See Canada Act 1982, when it stopped being correct.  The process of Canada becoming a fully sovereign state was not a moment in time, but a gradual process that took over 100 years, starting with the British North America Act 1867 and running down through 1982.  Before 1982, Canadian citizens were also British subjects.  -- Jayron 32 15:01, 4 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Do you count authorities such as the Coalition Provisional Authority? Jeremy Greenstock, for example, was a CPA official and a British diplomat. Neutralitytalk 21:29, 2 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Mark Carney, currently Governor of England's central bank, was previously Governor of Canada's central bank. Loraof (talk) 21:40, 2 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Also, two or more countries are in personal union if they share the same monarch. For example, Queen Elizabeth is simultaneously the queen of 16 different Commonwealth realms. Loraof (talk) 21:46, 2 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Okay, leaving aside Commonwealth Realms for the moment, we have Maximilian I of Mexico who besides having the job of Emperor of Mexico (1864-1867) had previously been employed as Commander of the Austro-Hungarian Navy (1854-1861) and Chief of the Naval Section (1861-1864). There were other 19th century Germanic princes who were appointed to foreign thrones but didn't seem to do a great deal beforehand. However, Josef Ludwig von Armansperg who was the Interior and Finance Minister (1826-1828) and Foreign and Finance Minister (1828-1831) under King Ludwig I of Bavaria, became Greece's President of the Privy Council and the 1st Representative (ie Prime Minister)following the appointment of Ludwig's brother Otto to the Greek throne in 1832. Karl von Abel and Georg Ludwig von Maurer also held public office in both countries. Alansplodge (talk) 22:37, 2 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Louis Napoleon managed three - he was an officer in the Swiss army, a British special constable, and head of state of France under two different constitutions. AlexTiefling (talk) 22:51, 2 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Gerry Adams was elected MP for West Belfast in the UK parliament (though was an absentionist there) and was later (is currently? - I forget) a TD in the Irish parliament. (You can also debate whther MP / TD is a public office for the purposes of the question) --Tagishsimon (talk) 22:53, 2 April 2016 (UTC)


 * He was also a member of the Northern Irish Assembly – indeed, deputy First Minister. The yin to his yang, Ian Paisley, triple jobbed as MP in the Houses of Parliament, MLA in the Northern Irish Assembly and MEP in European Parliament simultaneously (although as a unionist, he would have thought of himself as representing the UK at all three; similarly, if you were to ask Adams who he represented in all three parliaments, he would without a doubt say the people of Ireland. Adams tried to use his election as a MP to the British parliament (which he didn't recognize as legitimate) to claim a seat on the Dail, but the Irish rebuffed him). Smurrayinchester 10:52, 4 April 2016 (UTC)


 * dual mandate is the article for double-jobbing at subnational level. For more like Gerry Adams see Records of members of the Oireachtas, which includes some who were in the Seanad and the House of Lords at the same time, though none such since the Republic of Ireland Act 1948 most recently Benjamin Guinness, 3rd Earl of Iveagh, though it seems he never spoke in the Lords. jnestorius(talk) 08:42, 6 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Gustave Rolin-Jaequemyns was Minister of the Interior for Belgium (1878-1884) and General Advisor to Chulalongkorn of Siam. Do I get the prize for the most obscure answer? Alansplodge (talk) 23:00, 2 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Prince William of Orange must have held some public office in the Netherlands, and he became King of England. 31.52.139.188 (talk) 00:23, 3 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Indeed he was. William III of England was also Stadtholder of numerous constituent state of the United Provinces, and defacto leader of the country (Officially all Stadtholders were equal, but in practice the Princes of Orange usually held several Stadtholder positions simultaneously and were the defacto rulers of the Netherlands).  If we count William III, we should also count the British monarchs who were members of the House of Hanover: George I of Great Britain, George II of Great Britain, and George III of Great Britain were also Electors of Hanover.  Likewise, Philip II of Spain was also King of England, Scotland, and Ireland jure uxoris for his wife Mary I of England.  You can find other such monarchs looking for Personal unions.  -- Jayron 32 02:53, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
 * James V and Mary, Queen of Scots were the rulers of Scotland during Mary Tudor's reign in England. Tevildo (talk) 08:21, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
 * So amended. -- Jayron 32 14:58, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for responding my question. Let me word it differently; non-royal and two different entities. (i.e. United States and Hungary) Ueutyi (talk) 02:29, 3 April 2016 (UTC)


 * The best shot in America would maybe be the Fairfax family, or perhaps the Astor family. The Lords Fairfax of Cameron had members that served in both the House of Lords and held political office in the U.S., but I don't know that any single person held office in both locations.  Likewise, the Astor family has had members sit in the House of Lords and have held political office in the U.S., but I don't know that any served in both nations.  But it may be a lead.  -- Jayron 32 02:45, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
 * See Thomas Henry McConica, who was President of the Ohio Senate 1894-1896; after moving to Saskatchewan, he was a Progressive MP for the Battleford riding, 1921-1924. Nyttend (talk) 02:56, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
 * This is exactly what I want to find. Thank you! Ueutyi (talk) 04:06, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
 * O.H. Wallop had sat in the legislature of Wyoming before he inherited the earldom of Portsmouth. —Tamfang (talk) 07:14, 4 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Sam Houston was twice President of the Republic of Texas and governor of two different U.S. states. -- Jayron 32 03:14, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Mikheil Saakashvili is former president of Georgia and current governor of Odessa Oblast in Ukraine. PiusImpavidus (talk) 09:29, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
 * One of the Co-Princes of Andorra is the President of France, currently François Hollande. Thus, as the article says he is "the only monarch in the world to be elected by common citizens" and "the only person to be a monarch and the head of state of a republic at the same time." CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 09:48, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Now I feel really stupid. Helen Maksagak was, in order, the deputy commissioner (March 3, 1992-December 21, 1994), the Commissioner (16 January 1995-26 March 1999) of the Northwest Territories, then the Commissioner (1999-2000) and finally the deputy commissioner (2005-2009) of Nunavut. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 10:07, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
 * At the risk of repeating myself - does Louis Napoleon qualify under the new criteria? Although he was the heir of Napoleon I, he first became French head of state as President in a landslide election victory; earlier the same year he had been sworn as a British special constable, and much earlier in his career had been a Swiss army officer. AlexTiefling (talk) 12:24, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
 * The entire current National Assembly of South Sudan consists of people elected to office in the 2010 Sudanese general election (either to the parliament of Sudan or the Souther Sudan Legislative Assembly). --Soman (talk) 13:18, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

Vahan Papazian was elected to the Ottoman parliament in 1908 and to the Lebanese parliament in 1951. --Soman (talk) 13:25, 3 April 2016 (UTC), actually he failed to get elected in 1951 --Soman (talk) 13:29, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
 * The remarkable career of Jean Bernadotte is worth noting. He was French, became a French soldier under first the monarchy, then the republic, then the French Empire under Napoleon. Then he was offered the throne of Sweden due to a lack of suitable Swedish candidates, was appointed as King Charles, went native and declared war on France. And led an army fighting his native country in person, and won. His family remain the royal family of Sweden to this day. While he ended his life a king, it was an appointed position. Blythwood (talk) 14:57, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
 * How about Valdas Adamkus, who had a full career in the US Environmental Protection agency, retired after 16 years as a regional administrator, then moved back to Lithuania which his family had fled during the Second World War and was then twice elected President of Lithuania (1998-2003, and after the successor who beat him the 2003 election was impeached, 2004-2009). -- Arwel Parry (talk) 18:15, 3 April 2016 (UTC)


 * I have a memory that Rudy Perpich, former governor of Minnesota, was invited to seek the presidency of Croatia (his father's homeland), but his article has no mention of it. —Tamfang (talk) 07:09, 4 April 2016 (UTC)


 * If we're getting into nearlies, then C B Fry having been Captain of England was offered the crown of Albania. Some may question whether captaining England counts as public office, others would say it is the highest in the land. DuncanHill (talk) 08:14, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Anyone who hasn't had sufficient mouth-open-in-astonishment moments in their life would do well to spend five minutes reading our article on C. B. Fry. Ten seconds scanning the article's Lead does quite a good job, too. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 08:47, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
 * "mouth-open-in-astonishment" - is that similar to "slack jawed with stupefaction"? :) --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  08:55, 4 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Many early Israeli politicians had originally made a name for themselves in their birth countries – the most prominent I can find Eliezer Kaplan who was a Ukrainian diplomat, later Israeli Finance Minister, and Yitzhak-Meir Levin who was on the Polish Sejm before becoming the Israeli Welfare Minister. Smurrayinchester 11:12, 4 April 2016 (UTC)


 * By definition, many Popes have been cardinals in the countries of their origin before being elected as Bishops of Rome. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 14:50, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Concurrent (as the above case of Andorra) QE2 is both the Queen of ... (as also mentioned above), but she is also the Lord of Man. So much for gender neutral terminology .  --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 15:01, 4 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Non-permanent judges of the Court of Final Appeal of Hong Kong have usually served as senior judges in other common law countries, and include a number of British Law Lords and Australian High Court judges, among others. Some former judges who started in Hong Kong then went on to serve as judges in other common law jurisdictions. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 16:35, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
 * (I know the Commonwealth realms have been discounted at some point above, but Australian Prime Minister George Reid (Australian politician) is quite remarkable for being elected to the House of Commons in the UK - which I think is a different kettle of fish from an Australian sitting on an imperial war cabinet or sitting in the House of Lords after inheriting a title.) --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 16:41, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
 * There are a few similar cases, listed at Records of members of parliament of the United Kingdom. Warofdreams talk 13:50, 5 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Another chain of enquiry: a number of Europeans became employed by Asian governments in the 19th and early 20th centuries, some reaching fairly high positions, and who also saw service with another power. For example, Reginald Johnston was successively imperial tutor to the Chinese court, and British colonial governor of Weihaiwei. Sir Robert Hart, 1st Baronet eventually rose to be Chinese imperial mandarin of the first button, after he left the British consular service. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 18:39, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
 * James Patrick Mahon served in various armies, including as a general in Uruguay, and as an Irish MP in the Westminster Parliament. George Padmore, from Trinidad, was elected/appointed to the Moscow Soviet and served as an official advisor to the President of Ghana. Warofdreams talk 13:50, 5 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Heard another example mentioned on the BBC this morning - Ralf Dahrendorf who was a member of the German Parliament and also of the UK Parliament (House of Lords), as well as holding European Union posts. 217.44.50.87 (talk) 15:28, 6 April 2016 (UTC)