Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2016 April 26

= April 26 =

What's the most developed country that beats these?

 * Cheapest denomination that's generally a bill: 1 US dollar. (America has some cheap banknotes by first world standards, £5/€5/$5 Canadian/5AUD/$10 New Zealand is the cheapest I think)
 * Cheapest "most expensive non-uncommon circulating coin": 0.25 US dollars.
 * Cheapest circulating coin: 0.01 US dollars, copper or zinc (1 yen coins have long been small and aluminum, the cheapest possible non-magnetic metal by volume)l
 * Cheapest typical ATM bill: 20 US dollars (some ATMs give fifties plus at least 5 twenties if you make a big order. I don't know what the cutoff is but it's more than typical usage).
 * Cheapest/most expensive typical ATM withdrawal limit. My bank's default is 700 US dollars/day. It was once $500 which was typical.

Also, do East Asians say things like "I feel like a billion yen", "she has a billion yen smile", "40,000 a night? Holy shit, that's cheap!", or "I make 9-figures"? Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 02:04, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
 * The first two, unless you are Japanese, they seem extremely unlikely. It would be like an Englishman saying "She has a million Deutschmark smile". Whether 40,000 a night is cheap will depend on what the 40,000 a night is for, and it will depend on the currency used by the speaker. It certainly seems expensive for whatever the night's activities are, if it is in Chinese yuan. Conversely, one may well boast about earning 9-figures in Chinese yuan, as that would make one a very solid dollar-millionaire by income. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 02:41, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, I meant only Japanese people for the first two (and only Koreans for the last two, 40,000 won I think would be cheap for a hotel room). A million yen is only about $10,000 which is mundane so maybe they use billion instead for those types of expressions? Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 02:53, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Eijirō's entry for "feel like a million dollars" doesn't have any similar Japanese saying (also, I've never heard one). The entry for "make six figures" starts with a direct translation, 6桁稼ぐ, but the subsequent explanation makes me think there's no similar Japanese saying (also, I've never heard one).
 * The Japanese big-number words are powers of 10000, not 1000, so one might say ichi-oku-en, or 108 yen, which happens to be close to a million dollars. -- BenRG (talk) 07:04, 26 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Most UK ATM's give out £10 and £20 notes. Some give only £20. Some give £5 notes. --ColinFine (talk) 08:43, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Side note: although £50 notes have been around in the UK for over 35 years, they are still treated with great suspicion (presumably because of the risk that they're counterfeit), and some retailers refuse to accept them. They can't be used in the self-service machines in my local Sainsbury's, for example. I've never been given one by a cash machine (aka ATM), even for large amounts. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 11:11, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
 * The counterfeiters are well aware of this - which is why the vast majority of counterfeit notes in the UK are £20 ones. 81.132.106.10 (talk) 14:30, 26 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Typical ATM limit in the UK is £250. DuncanHill (talk) 11:30, 26 April 2016 (UTC)


 * ATMs in Ireland typically give 10, 20, and 50 euro notes. jnestorius(talk) 17:12, 26 April 2016 (UTC)


 * For the U.S., the most expensive circulating coin is the Dollar coin (United States). The U.S. also has a circulating Half dollar (United States coin) coin.  Depending on the peculiarities of the local economy, these coins can be rare in some parts of the country, and more common in others, but they are circulating coins and fully acceptable for all monetary transactions.  -- Jayron 32 11:46, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Do you even use them? I haven't seen a half dollar besides pictures. Around here dollar coins only seem to come from Metropolitan Transportation Authority Metrocard vending machines. I've had at least 2 cashiers within easy walking distance of them not know what dollar coins are. It's not really circulating if it comes from a niche source and isn't spent beyond getting rid of it. On the other hand $1.50 N.Y. City train tokensNYSubwayTokens.tif, nearby casino chips and toonies circulated/circulate more than those coins in parts of the US, that doesn't really make "local casino chip" a US coin. Now Canadian Tire money maybe you could call widely accepted (frequently used? IDK) money but that's Canadian. I've changed back to "most expensive non-uncommon circulating coin". Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 14:18, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
 * What I do or do not do with them is unimportant. If I were to go to a bank with a pile of half dollars and ask them to be deposited, they would do so without question.  My personal use of the coin is irrelevant as to whether or not the coins are valid, circulating coins.  They are, regardless of your or my personal experiences with them.  According to the U.S. Treasury (and I think they would know), here are the current circulating U.S. denominations:
 * Bills: $1, $2, $5, $10, $20, $50, $100
 * Coins: cent, nickel, dime, quarter dollar, half dollar, one dollar(two varieties).
 * There you go. Whether I use those coins is not a relevant point.  -- Jayron 32 14:37, 26 April 2016
 * Given that the question specifies "non-uncommon", usage is relevant. Of course, "common" and "uncommon" are vague; but one might, e.g., compare the total number of one-dollar-coins with one-dollar-notes or 25-cent-coins to give a rough ratio metric of commonness, and then do analogously for any coin suggested as an answer to the original question. jnestorius(talk) 17:12, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
 * See moving the goal posts and do try to keep up. -- Jayron 32 18:11, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
 * The original question specified a "commonly used" coin. Based on my experience visiting the US, this does rule out the 50-cent and dollar coins.  Sagittarian: please stop editing your questions after people have answered them, without leaving a trace.  It makes the thread confusing to read.  Either clarify in a separate posting, or if it's clearer to edit the original, then at least leave the original words in place crossed out, that like like that. --69.159.61.172 (talk) 21:06, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Sorry. I decided to cut the "cover my ass" qualification to make it succinct in a mistaken belief that people would realize "circulation" is fuzzy (I get silver coins at times, are they circulating?) so I must mean "strict enough that the 25 cent piece is it" (if wanted the dollar coin considered I could've just written that). Of all the richer territories I checked they all had coins that are worth more than a US quarter. The $2 Canadian, £2, €2, 5 CHF Swiss, $2 Australian, $5 New Zealand, 500 Yen, 500 Won, $1 Singapore, $10 Hong Kong, $50 Taiwan, 20 Krone Norway, 10 Swedish kronor, 20 Danish krone, 100 krónur Icelandic, 10 shekel Israeli new, 100 CFP franc (i.e. Tahiti), $1 Bermuda, £5 Gibraltar, 1 Jersey pound, 5 Macau pataca, and Guernsey, Manx, Falklands and St. Helena £2 coins are all worth way more than a quarter. The 5 South African rand coin has always been worth more than a quarter (at least for now). The UAE dirham (home of Dubai) is rigidly pegged at 27.2 US cent. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 01:24, 27 April 2016 (UTC)


 * I regularly use ATMs that provide US$10 and US$20 notes, in the Richmond, Virginia area. -- LarryMac | Talk  17:29, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Are you talking about the ones in stores? Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 01:24, 27 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I'm just going to skip the moving goal post there. Some are, some aren't.  -- LarryMac  | Talk  15:35, 27 April 2016 (UTC)
 * I just wanted to know where they were, God. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 16:32, 27 April 2016 (UTC)


 * To try to actually answer your question: No country more developed than the US (currently 8th most developed according to the HDI) fulfills any of the criteria (the euro cent is 1.1 US cents, the 5 Swiss centime coin is about 5 US cents, and in both Norway and Denmark, the smallest coin is worth about 7 US cents). Iceland (16th highest developed) and South Korea (17th highest developed) essentially tie for smallest circulated coins. 1 Icelandic krona and 10 won (the smallest coin) are both about 0.8 US cents. The Canadian cent (0.7 US cents) is no longer circulated but is still legal tender and some business still accept them. For cheapest banknote, you have to go all the way to Brunei (31st most developed), whose 1 dollar bill is worth 0.75 USD. Just below that is Qatar (32nd second most developed) - the 50 dirham coin of the Qatari riyal is the largest coin in the country and is worth about 13 US cents (so just half a quarter) - and the 1 riyal bill is 26 cents. I can't answer the ATM part. Smurrayinchester 08:56, 28 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks. My country's pretty backwards then. We don't do aluminum or steel change like Korea, Canada and Iceland so we have to make melting cents a felony. Up to 5 years. Exporting too (1.25 kilos maximum). Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 23:24, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Actually, German ATMs regularly spit out anything between 5€ and 50€, and I've been given 100€ and even 200€ before, so Germany (and quite possibly the other Eurozone countries more developed than the US; Ireland and Netherlands) surely win here. Smurrayinchester 11:51, 28 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Australian ATMs typically spit out $20 and $50, and A$20 is worth less than US$20. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 10:41, 28 April 2016 (UTC)

Stamp
I have a postage stamp from Germany from the late 20s to early 30s, during the period of hyperinflation, and it has been overprinted with the words 4 billionen Deustschmark. How much would it be worth now? KägeTorä - (影虎) ( もしもし！ ) 09:56, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
 * They are quite invariably valued at a maximum of €400 worth for any of the usual species, regardless of being overprinted or not it seems. The usual practical worth is between €50 and €100 (shape, used etc: ) --Askedonty (talk) 11:01, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
 * (ec) I don't know (do you mean the value of the stamp itself, or of the DM4Bn?), but this page (linked from Hyperinflation in the Weimar Republic) might be of interest. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 11:04, 26 April 2016 (UTC)


 * The catalogue for the period shows no stamp surcharged 4 billionen - 50 milliarden is the highest recorded (bear in mind that a billion was then 1,000,000,000,000 while the milliarden is what we now usually call a billion - 1,000,000,000). There was one issue with a face value of 4 million - but that was not a surcharge) The current price for the high value inflation stamps can be very high, but ONLY if they have been genuinely used and postmarked. Unused ones are worth practically nothing - and there are a lot with fake postmarks. In 1923 the rate for sending an ordinary letter within Germany was 50,000,000,000 marks - so just compare that with the cost of a stamp for an ordinary letter today. 81.132.106.10 (talk) 12:04, 26 April 2016 (UTC)


 * As a collectible, your stamp is worth whatever someone else would be willing to pay to purchase it ... at auction perhaps (a lot would depend on how rare it is). Blueboar (talk) 17:16, 27 April 2016 (UTC)
 * KageTora, you need to supply a lot of additional details. Used or unused?  If used, does it have an expertised contemporaneous cancel, i.e. was it used to carry mail during the period of hyperinflation, and do you have a document from an expert committee (Philatelic expertisation) certifying their informed opinion that it's legitimate?  (Presumably not, or you'd know how to determine the value)  If used and non-contemporaneous, probably worthless.  If unused, what is the condition?  Any damage?  If so, worthless; high-quality copies of these stamps are plentiful, so nobody will pay for a damaged unused copy.  Is the gum in great shape?  Is it hinged?  What's the quality of the centering?  And finally, you note that it's been overprinted with a new value, i.e. surcharged, comparable to File:Germany278.jpg.  What's the underlying stamp?  If it's like the stamps pictured in  (already linked above), it's not an overprint; it's just a basic design with the value included in the original printing.  I'm not trying to complain at you; it's just that valuation tends to depend on a lot of variables, and we can't give you a solid answer when there are a lot of unknowns.  Nyttend (talk) 03:33, 28 April 2016 (UTC)

Hillsborough inquest
IF you're in Britain you'll have been hearing about this all day. A jury sat for two years and heard 300 days of evidence. My question is: how can jurors just give up two years of their lives? They have jobs and stuff right? Or Was there a selection process designed to return jurors who were retired or whatever? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.92.204.35 (talk) 16:14, 26 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Juries in England and Wales explains how juries are chosen in England and Wales. -- Jayron 32 16:55, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
 * From my own experience of serving on a jury (Winchester Crown Court) 16 years ago: many employers (as mine did) will give the juror all the time off required at full pay, recognizing this as a duty they (the employers) owe to society. In my case (pun intended) the initial selection process and the trial itself took around 6 weeks.
 * Many people who are self employed, are key workers in their business, or have other pressing personal affairs apply to have their jury service deferred, and are often successful.
 * For the days on which they are required to attend, the court also pays jurors travel expenses (which are usually not great as the jury pool for a given court is fairly local), and a modest allowance for meals. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.199.208.67 (talk) 18:14, 26 April 2016 (UTC)


 * The employer being able to cover the cost of being without an employee for 2 years would only work for certain types of businesses. For examples where it wouldn't work, how about a small business with only a couple employees ?  Or how about if the juror is self-employed ?  Or what if they're in a job dependent on tips or commissions, will the employer pay them based on the tips or commission they would have gotten ?  Will they give them raises and promotions as if they had been there ? StuRat (talk) 19:35, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Several of those are precisely the sorts of instances where an application to have one's jury service deferred would likely be successful, and I myself witnessed several such when the likely length of the trial I sat for (which proved to be an under-estimation) was announced. Note that the deferment might be for several years, given that after performing jury service one is then excused re-selection for a minimum of (as I recall) 10 years.
 * Usually one is called for a minimum of (now) 10 working days, in which one might serve on two or more short trials. However, trials can, obviously, last longer (as in my case) and one is expected to last the distance unless really serious circumstances (such as illness) dictate that one is discharged.
 * All the current details can be found via the following UK Government website: https://www.gov.uk/jury-service/overview (from which I see Nanonic below has already linked to a sub-page.)
 * Certainly some of those selected may suffer a degree of detriment to their income and even career. This possibility is the duty one owes in return for the privilege of living in a society subject to juried trials. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 185.74.232.130 (talk) 14:24, 27 April 2016 (UTC)


 * https://www.gov.uk/jury-service/taking-time-off-work Nanonic (talk) 19:36, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
 * In the United States, judges supervising the selection of a jury expected to sit for a very long time will give great deference to the needs of individual jurors. Accordingly, such juries will be composed primarily of retirees and people employed by government agencies and large corporations with personnel policies supporting jury service. I have been part of a jury pool many times, and have served on two juries. Both those trials lasted only a few days. Cullen328  Let's discuss it  01:39, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

On the national register of historic places, but no photo?
The Constantine Sneed House is on the National Register of Historic Places but there's no photo of the place, howcome??, that is definitely one article to add a photo to. Bytesock (talk) 23:44, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Thousands of NRHP items have no photo. I have only been able to supply hundreds; it's a big job. Maybe you can visit a few. Jim.henderson (talk) 23:55, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Bytesock, are you in the vicinity? We'd welcome your help if you can supply a photo.  Per WP:NRHPPROGRESS, there were 68,264 images for 90,627 NRHP sites (i.e. 75.3% were illustrated) on 23 April, when the page was last updated.  Some states are better than others: Indiana was at 98.3% (I've contributed the majority of those photos), but South Dakota was just 33.1%.  Tennessee, where Mr Snead lived, is somewhat below average, with 65.3% illustrated; 1,339 of its 2,052 sites were illustrated.  Nyttend (talk) 03:25, 28 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Does Wikipedia pay the flight ticket, hotel and food? :P A cost efficient may perhaps be to send a begging letter to Google maps and have them release that specific site to a WP compatible licence via ORTS. Other options are a long range drone, payed by WP of course ;-) Bytesock (talk) 03:32, 28 April 2016 (UTC)
 * If long-range drones were easily available, we'd suddenly get a lot of additional sites illustrated, and lots of others would have better photos; it would quickly be time to replace File:Hillside at the Gartner Site.jpg with a shot of the hilltop site, for example, and a small drone would be able to get good photos (without the requirement for a guided tour) of all six unillustrated sites on Jefferson Proving Ground, as well. Nyttend (talk) 03:45, 28 April 2016 (UTC)
 * It's not that hard. But it does cost. Some of the better batteries for a quad copter would last for about 20 km one-way and then return. And good cameras will impose weight, further reducing the capability. So probably, it's no good unless one is in the vicinity anyway. Jet motors exists for RC airplanes but they might impose a lower speed limits and are costly. So taking into consideration cost, range, load capability, fuel consumption etc. A simple propeller plane might be the best option to send something that flies to take a photo and return. They have been made to cross continents, so it can be done. Bytesock (talk) 07:09, 29 April 2016 (UTC)