Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2016 December 14

= December 14 =

What was the most votes for something non-governmental?
i.e. American Idol, the Eurovision Song Contest, NBA All-Star Game, something done by Pepsi, etc. Most total votes in one election? Most votes for one choice in one election? (one round if there's multiple rounds like French President) Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 00:34, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
 * The Wikipedia article on Prashant Tamang says that he received 70 million votes in Indian Idol 3. Hack (talk) 08:40, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Eurovision doesn't release the exact numbers for recent Eurovision contests - the most recent published was 10 million votes in 2010 (split among 40-odd countries). I suspect that it's higher than that now, but not that much higher. At the last Eurovision, every country with a Polish population of at least 1% (per this) except for France ranked Poland top or second-top in the televotes. That suggests that even a relatively small group can swing the vote. If you count twitter voting, this MTV poll blew Indian Idol out of the water with over a billion votes (but most from a tiny concerted group of fans). Smurrayinchester 09:12, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

Hermes on American Express
Who designed the image of Hermes/Mercury on American Express cards and is there an original image? Thanks.--93.174.25.12 (talk) 10:02, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
 * According to this (which may not be the most reliable source) the image is neither Hermes nor Mercury, but simply a gladiator. According to a dead link source (can't reference it) in the lead of the very same American Express article you cited, they called it a centurion.  However, according to the official American Express website, it is a gladiator head: .  No idea who first designed it, yet.  Haven't found anything.  -- Jayron 32 12:19, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Here is the original trademark registration, from 1959. -- Jayron 32 12:25, 14 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Hermes/Mercury is FTD's trademark. The character on the American Impress Card indeed looks like a gladiator. No wings on the helmet. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 14:51, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
 * It doesn't really matter what I or you or anyone else THINKS they look like. What matters is what reliable sources say it is.  -- Jayron 32 15:35, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Per the note below vs. your earlier link, since American Espresso doesn't know who its own symbol is, there's not much hope for the rest of us. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 16:30, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
 * What American Express calls it is easily verifiable by looking at American Express's own documentation. You're quite allowed to read those documents published by or filed by American Express themselves; no one has tried to stop you.  Every other source that uses a different word than American Express uses isn't American Express, but "people making things up".  You should be familiar with that; you're rather one of the resident experts at it here on this reference desk.  -- Jayron 32 16:41, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
 * The note below suggests that their own advertisers would be included in your "people making stuff up". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 16:47, 14 December 2016 (UTC)


 * There has been a heavy budget TV commercial produced for the American Express card in 1994 titled Hermes by the way, see --Askedonty (talk) 15:30, 14 December 2016 (UTC)


 * This site - http://www.famouslogos.net/american-express-logo/ - calls it a Viking (which it fairly clearly isn't). This site - http://creditcardforum.com/blog/american-express-logo-history/ - discusses the image in some detail, and concludes it is meant to be a gladiator (which is what the trademark application calls it), but looks more like a centurion. Hermes or Mercury doesn't get a look in. Neither have anything to say about the designer. Wymspen (talk) 16:34, 14 December 2016 (UTC)


 * For characters with similar helmets, see Ares, Mars (mythology), Marvin the Martian and Ottawa Senators. For various usages of the winged-helmet character, see Mercury (mythology). ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 16:39, 14 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Regarding your note above I'm sorry I was leading you in a wrong direction. The full title may have been "American Express for Hermes chairman", Hermes (brand) being a internationally renowned or, where I'm standing at least, advertized luxury brand. Established advertisers seem to be able to do better than merely making stuff up, and so much though that they wouldn't lose if some of the public thought they did. Look at that magnificent educated Trompe-l'œil dated 1995: "...there was a time when the customer would pay with a piece of paper...". The guy admits his clients primarily are horses. --Askedonty (talk) 20:39, 14 December 2016 (UTC)


 * And finally, a joke which was popular in the UK awhile back...
 * Patient: "Doctor, doctor, I think I've got Hermes."
 * Doctor: "Don't you mean herpes?"
 * Patient: "No, I'm a just a carrier." Alansplodge (talk) 19:12, 18 December 2016 (UTC) ?

Verifiably correct version of Eisenhower's "Planning is everything" quote
On the Web, there are several common variations of a quote attributed to Eisenhower. Part of the quote is: "Planning is everything." The other part of the quote is something along the line "The plan is nothing." What is the correct version of the quote ("correct" as in as originally spoken)? --134.242.92.97 (talk) 17:00, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Wikiquote's article here seems to think the quote is "plans are useless, but planning is indispensable." and it has several citations, including "From a speech to the National Defense Executive Reserve Conference in Washington, D.C. (November 14, 1957) ; in Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States, Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1957, National Archives and Records Service, Government Printing Office, p. 818 : ISBN 0160588510, 9780160588518" and "Six Crises (1962) by Richard Nixon,"  You should be able to follow up on those.  I'd imagine both the National Archives and Nixon would be reliable sources for such a quote; the archives source especially since it would be Eisenhower's own words.  -- Jayron 32 17:08, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Found it. Here page 818 has the direct quote in his own words.  Notably, however, he doesn't actually say he invented the saying, he gives credit to "A statement I heard long ago in the Army".  So, while we may never know the original source, we do have Eisenhower's use of the phrase.  -- Jayron 32 17:12, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks. --134.242.92.97 (talk) 17:50, 14 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Let's put the answer as well as details of the source Jayron cites into the thread. It's in Public Papers of the Presidents, Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1957, from the Government Printing Office; and Eisenhower's wording in the book is "Plans are worthless, but planning is everything."  And he explains as follows:


 * I tell this story to illustrate the truth of the statememt I heard long ago in the Army: Plans are worthless, but planning is everything. There is a very great distinction because when you are planning for an emergency you must start with this one thing: the very definition of "emergency" is that it is unexpected, therefore it is not going to happen the way you are planning.
 * So, the first thing you do is take all the plans off the top shelf and throw them out the window and start once more. But if you haven't been planning you can't start to work, intelligently at least.
 * That is the reason it is so important to plan, to keep yourselves steeped in the character of the problem that you may one day be called upon to solve&mdash;or to help to solve.
 * --76.71.5.45 (talk) 20:46, 14 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Reminiscent of Helmuth von Moltke the Elder who said: "no plan of operations extends with any certainty beyond the first contact with the main hostile force"


 * I prefer the version attributed to Mike Tyson: "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth"

RFC for those interested in US Geography
People who frequent this desk may be interest in U.S. geography in general, there's an RFC here which may interest some of you. -- Jayron 32 21:35, 14 December 2016 (UTC)