Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2016 December 5

= December 5 =

Gambia and the Commonwealth
Has the new president-elect of the Gambia made any comments on his country's relationship with the Commonwealth? The previous government withdrew in 2013 calling it a neo-colonial institution. Rojomoke (talk) 14:33, 5 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Not a direct quote, but BBC says "Mr Barrow has promised to undo some of Mr Jammeh's more controversial moves, including reversing decisions to remove The Gambia from the Commonwealth and the International Criminal Court (ICC)." 184.147.120.192 (talk) 15:07, 5 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Aha, here's the quote they are referring to, made by Adama Barrow to the Anadolu Post on Nov. 27: "“We will ensure that we respect all international agreements we are a signatory to and we will take the country back to the Commonwealth and the International Criminal Court." 184.147.120.192 (talk) 15:11, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

talking to yourself as sign of madness
Does psychology consider talking to yourself a sign of mental problems? Is too much verbalization of mental self talk a sign that something is wrong with ourselves?31.177.98.136 (talk) 15:01, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia's article on the subject is at Intrapersonal communication. It mentions no mental illness that causes it; indeed it seems to imply a near-universal aspect of normal human behavior.  -- Jayron 32 15:14, 5 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Merely pretending that there is another person isn't likely a problem. However, if you actually believe you are talking to (or listening to) someone other than yourself when no one else is actually present, then that could be a sign of a delusion.  Dragons flight (talk) 16:36, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Prayer would be exempted. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 19:05, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure Christopher Hitchens would have agreed with that... --Stephan Schulz (talk) 19:09, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
 * The mental illness of which prayer is symptomatic is not talking to yourself, it's the belief that fictional entities can influence the real world. Not relevant to the OP. Fgf10 (talk) 19:35, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Prove those entities are fictional. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 20:24, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
 * That's rather reversing the burden of proof. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I don't have to proof that something doesn't exist. Also, I have the law of physics on my side. Fgf10 (talk) 21:06, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I find your lack of faith disturbing. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:49, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
 * It is impossible to prove or disprove the existence of any such entity through scientific methods. Unrelated, but there's one psychiatrist, a real one, who works for the NHS in the UK who keeps a facebook page. He once posted: "The psychiatry consultant regrets to announce that the CIA have not yet developed a chip which can read your thoughts. So, if you believe you have been implanted with such a device, please see your local psychiatrist as soon as possible so they can take appropriate action". One poster's response? "There's no point! My chip is programmed to evade detection by psychiatrists!" Eliyohub (talk) 05:18, 6 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Depending on how you talk to yourself, not only isn't it a sign of madness, it's actually a good thing. http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-fernyhough-voices-in-head-20161205-story.html 🔯 Sir Joseph 🍸 (talk) 19:10, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
 * People talking with themselves are a real bore, after they find a way of convincing other parts of the public they are after something worth either new or forgotten. You witness the birth of a new sheme of exclusion. --Askedonty (talk) 06:10, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I think this might not be so directly about talking to oneself, which I did a hell of a lot of when practising for plays or speeches, but whether the speech is being directed at some form of auditory hallucination. Talking in a way that others might perceive as being directed at yourself might be seen as kind of weird, but depending on circumstances maybe not unreasonable. Talking to "the voices" might be another matter entirely. John Carter (talk) 19:41, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I agree with the above posters. If you know that you're talking to yourself, merely voicing your thoughts as a way of processing and pondering them, this would not be considered a mental illness, though in certain situations when others are around, it would be considered odd, even though most people do it. On the other hand, if you're responding to "voices" in your head, this may well be in indication of hallucinations, which would be a mental illness. Eliyohub (talk) 05:18, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Occasionally it can be useful, see rubber duck debugging (which can be performed effectively without a duck) MChesterMC (talk) 13:33, 6 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Talking to oneself is not a sign of mental disease per se. But if you run into somebody who is obviously having a loud and emotional conversation with himself, it will frequently turn out that he is suffering from schizophrenia and hearing voices inside his head.  So it can be an indicator of mental disease in a statistical sense, if it is blatant enough. Looie496 (talk) 15:28, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
 * If they're spouting gibberish, that's called schizophasia. 50.0.136.56 (talk) 19:02, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

Casino fire?
I remember hearing a while ago on the news that there was a fire at a casino or a diner or something where over one hundred people died. It caught my mind because I remember that the owner wouldn't let anyone out until they paid, and he barricaded the doors, which caused a lot of people to die. Can anyone else find something about this event, because I sure as hell can't. It happened in the United States, so I couldn't get any results because of things in Asia and South America. Thanks in advance. UN$¢_Łuke_1Ø21Repørts 15:58, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Are you thinking of Cocoanut Grove fire in 1942? Nearly 500 people died. "The scale of the tragedy shocked the nation and briefly replaced the events of World War II in newspaper headlines. It led to a reform of safety standards and codes across the US, and to major changes in the treatment and rehabilitation of burn victims internationally." Carbon Caryatid (talk) 16:09, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

No, it was a recent event. I remember hearing about it on the news in 2010 or 2011. UN$¢_Łuke_1Ø21Repørts 19:00, 5 December 2016 (UTC)


 * My first thought was the Summerland disaster in 1971 on the Isle of Man, which killed 53: "There was no attempt to evacuate the 3,000 people present until the visible evidence of the flames prompted a panic-stricken mass rush for the exits, where many people were crushed and trampled. Because of the locked fire doors, many people headed to the main entrance, which caused a crush". Alansplodge (talk) 16:27, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
 * But then I found The Station nightclub fire in 2003 in Rhode Island: "The fire was caused by pyrotechnics set off by the tour manager of the evening's headlining band Great White, which ignited flammable sound insulation polyurethane foam in the walls and ceilings surrounding the stage. A fast-moving fire with intense black smoke engulfed the club in 5½ minutes. Video footage of the fire shows its ignition, rapid growth, the billowing smoke that quickly made escape impossible, and the exit blockage that further hindered evacuation. The toxic smoke, heat and the stampede of people toward the exits killed 100; 230 were injured and another 132 escaped uninjured". Alansplodge (talk) 16:27, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Maybe the MGM Grand fire, which killed 85 people? Not over 100 and the owner didn't barricade the doors...but it was sort of at a casino at least. Adam Bishop (talk) 16:30, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Also the Dupont Plaza Hotel arson in 1986 which killed 98. Alansplodge (talk) 16:32, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
 * And yet another, the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire, keeps abreast of the theme of "owners locked the doors to cut down on theft, and that's why so many people died". -- Jayron 32 16:38, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
 * And the Happy Land fire killed 87 in 1959 in the Bronx. Alansplodge (talk) 16:53, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
 * In 1959 Southern Boulevard, that is. The date was 1990. —Tamfang (talk) 00:24, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Finally, feel free to peruse our List of fires - the second list down deals with fires in individual buildings. Alansplodge (talk) 17:30, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Sorry, it wasn't any of these. I will look through that list later, because I'm at school and don't want to look weird. UN$¢_Łuke_1Ø21Repørts 19:01, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
 * However, if by recent you mean 1990s or after, the only other fire in the US with a significant number of lives lost where locked doors were involved that is in that article seems to be Hamlet chicken processing plant fire which was 25 deaths. It's possible it's simply not in the list, but with a high number of lives lost, happening relatively recently and in the US, I suspect it would be. How sure are you that it's in the US? As mentioned above and below, locked doors to prevent theft etc isn't exactly uncommon. And as insular as the US is as times, I'm fairly sure a fire causing a hundred deaths (or something close to it) could make your local news even if it happened outside the US. Nil Einne (talk) 01:54, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I am 99% sure it happened in the United States. My dad is a firefighter, so he is normally notified whenever there is a huge fire, no matter where in the US it occurred. I think it happened on the East Coast but I'm not really sure. I'll ask him, I guess. UN$¢_Łuke_1Ø21Repørts 17:23, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Perhaps getting confused with Ycuá Bolaños supermarket fire? See also Category:Fire disasters involving barricaded escape routes. Nanonic (talk) 19:35, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
 * That wasn't in the United States but was in South America so wouldn't seem to be what the OP is after. As shown above, locked doors to prevent theft is unfortunately a common occurrence so I'm not sure if it would be easy to single out any particular incident as a cause of confusion especially once we expand outside the US. The incident you mention is perhaps somewhat out of the ordinary in the locking allegedly happening after the fire started, although this briefly happened in the Kiss nightclub fire too and our article suggests also 2009 Nakumatt supermarket fire albeit again with unclear consequence. Further back, it was also suggested locking after the fire happened in Ozone Disco Club fire. So unfortunately I don't think people allegedly being locked in after the fire had started can be linked to only one incident either. (There was a successful prosecution of a security guard in the Ycuá Bolaños case so it may not be just alleged. I can't see this mentioned for any of the other cases, but coverage of even major incidents outside the developed world can be spotty on wikipedia. Also if you're remembering reports from when the incident happened it's likely you're just going by what others said anyway.) Nil Einne (talk) 02:19, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Not what the OP is looking for, I know, but in terms of locked exit doors, the Bradford City stadium fire ranks right up there. The exits were apparently locked to prevent fans sneaking into game without paying. (Stupidly, fire extinguishers were also absent, as fans had in the past used them as weapons against rival fans). Thankfully, in many cases, people managed to break the doors down, but in one section, they failed, and most of the 56 deaths were in that section. Note that there were approximately 2,500 people in the stand, it was a Flash fire, and all but those 56 escaped. here is a clip of it "live" (see how fast it spreads - real time!) but do beware, parts are graphic. Eliyohub (talk) 05:00, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

If the World Wars, Cold War and Great Depression never happened what would happen population-wise?
Would Europe have more people now? Western Europe? Eastern? Japan? Would the US have less? Could the current borders of Germany have 90 or 100 million instead of 81? Would Europe still be about to stop growing? Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 23:16, 5 December 2016 (UTC)


 * I think you're aware of the admonition at the top of the page "We don't answer requests for opinions, predictions or debate." You're wishing to indulge in a little Counterfactual history. Perhaps start with that article and follow links; you may find writers who have gone in the direction of your interest. The sheer scale of what-ifs in your question renders any further answer futile. --Tagishsimon (talk) 23:25, 5 December 2016 (UTC)


 * There would probably have been other disasters to take up the slack. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 23:53, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

. This doesn't mean I endorse i
 * Note that the 1918 flu pandemic happened to occur near the end of World War 1, and killed more people than the war itself. Sometimes the true killers get forgotten. I'm not aware of many memorials to the victims of the pandemic, whilst there are thousands of memorial sites to the victims of the war. Your question is in general way to vague to be answered, even in the realm of "counterfactual history". There are forums devoted to the topic, and if you like counterfactual history, consider reading the book What If? (essays) where "military historians imagine what might have been", and its' sequel more "what if". Eliyohub (talk) 04:55, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

Rojomoke (talk) 05:05, 6 December 2016 (UTC)