Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2016 July 29

= July 29 =

Any US Presidents who were shot and survived?
There were some news articles about John Hinckley, who shot Ronald Reagan, being released from a mental hospital after all these years. This makes me wonder if there were any other US Presidents who were shot and didn't die from their wounds (lots of war veterans were presidents, so maybe it happened on the battlefield?).--Captain Breakfast (talk) 03:50, 29 July 2016 (UTC)


 * See List of United States presidential assassination attempts and plots.
 * John Flammang Schrank shot Theodore Roosevelt "once in the chest with a .38 caliber revolver. The 50-page text of his campaign speech folded over twice in Roosevelt's breast pocket and a metal glasses case slowed the bullet, saving his life. Schrank was immediately disarmed, captured and might have been lynched had Roosevelt not shouted for Schrank to remain unharmed. After discerning he was not mortally wounded, Roosevelt finished his speech with the bullet still lodged in his chest. Afterwards, he went to a nearby hospital, where the bullet was found between his ribs. Doctors decided it would be too risky to remove it, so the bullet remained in Roosevelt's body for the rest of his life. He spent two weeks recuperating before returning to the campaign trail. Despite his tenacity, Roosevelt ultimately lost his bid for reelection."
 * -- ToE 04:52, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Is it true that if he went right away he paradoxically would've died? Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 08:43, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
 * How do you die paradoxically? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 22:46, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Get shot by your grandson from the future, maybe? --71.110.8.102 (talk) 00:11, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Sure. But TR was not shot by his future grandson. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:42, 30 July 2016 (UTC)


 * At that point (1912) he was a former president. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 05:21, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Maybe you are just being smart, but I am not limiting the question to sitting presidents. Past/future presidents ok too (thus my battlefield comment earlier).--Captain Breakfast (talk) 09:24, 29 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Andrew Jackson was shot and wounded in a duel.
 * I believe George Bush Sr. was wounded at least once during WWII. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 10:51, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Ronald Reagan is pretty obvious. Muffled Pocketed  10:54, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
 * You might want to look up the definition of the word "other" and re-read the OP's initial post. -- Jayron 32 11:03, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
 * D'oh! Muffled Pocketed  12:57, 3 August 2016 (UTC)


 * James Monroe had been shot and nearly died from a severed artery during the Revolutionary War. Rutherford B. Hayes was shot during the Civil War, injuring his arm pretty severely.  -- Jayron 32 11:10, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
 * You mean since the 1840 election. Note: this was reply to a comment that was later deleted. older ≠ wiser 13:08, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
 * It was deleted because it was posted by a banned user. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 22:49, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Some of the uncanny similarities between the deaths of Lincoln and Kennedy are listed at Lincoln-Kennedy coincidences urban legend.  Here are some more:


 * Kennedy once ate at a booth in a restaurant. Booth once used a john in a restaurant. Seriously, that list is an insult to rationality and truth.  Personal pet peeve, I suppose. - Nunh-huh 05:12, 3 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Also, prior to being shot, Lincoln was in Monroe, Maryland. Prior to being shot, Kennedy was in Marilyn Monroe... -- Jayron 32 15:35, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Not all of those are real but there's more coincidences like year of entering Congress to balance it out Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 18:58, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
 * The Monroe one is especially silly since Marilyn was already dead in 1963. Adam Bishop (talk) 17:09, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I think that was a joke, son. Made even more effective had he said it as "Monroe, Maryland" vs. "Monroe, Marilyn". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:43, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Indeed. Also, if Kennedy was ever in Marilyn Monroe, it would have have to have been prior to being shot.  He would not have been in her after being shot.  Though she was dead in 1963, she was not dead when he had sex with her, which would by necessity have been prior to being shot.  The joke is exactly 100% perfectly logical.  -- Jayron 32 18:20, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
 * There's a special place in Hell reserved for those who explain jokes. Go to your special place now. :)  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  19:50, 3 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Google Images have some entries claiming that John Alexander Kennedy was connected with Lincoln in some way. They were contemporaries, but that was about it. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 17:54, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

Add to the list: Lincoln’s secretary was named Kennedy. Lincoln was shot in Ford's Theater; Kennedy was shot in a Lincoln Ford. Both were shot on a Friday, in the head, by a Southerner and succeeded by a Southerner named Johnson born 100 years later (as was the case in the births of Booth and Oswald). Booth ran from a theater and was caught in a warehouse; Oswald ran from a warehouse and was caught in a theater. Both were killed before they could be tried. But, just a coincidence ... DOR (HK) (talk) 14:57, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I think most of those are in the article. One exception is that Lincoln did not have a secretary named Kennedy. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 17:12, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Booth was born in 1838, Oswald in 1939.  Marilyn Monroe died in 1962. 86.151.49.155 (talk) 20:43, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

Looking for an essay
I had to read an excellent essay about how to write concisely in my English class in college. It's called "Gutter" (if I remember correctly). Now, I'm trying to find it to reference to a friend, but I can't seem to find it anywhere. Can anyone give me a link to it please? I can get access to almost all database through my university access. 216.26.103.55 (talk) 06:06, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

"Sir... CBE"
In the article Order of the British Empire it says that just GBEs and KBE/DBEs are entitled "Sir", not CBEs. I remember reading years ago Sir Peter Ustinov's funny description by what bureaucratic procedures he became a knight, and he is usually referred to as "Sir..." on the continent as well. Is there just one letter wrong and, thus, should it read KBE instead of CBE in the article Peter Ustinov ? Or is the article Order of the British Empire not precise in that point, and "Sir Peter, CBE" is correct? Thanks a lot in advance for your help 80.133.76.178 (talk) 11:13, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
 * In his article he's also listed as Knight Bachelor. Mikenorton (talk) 11:19, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
 * As a Knight Bachelor (1990) he gets to be called Sir, but doesn't get any letter after his name. His CBE dates from 1975. It's the same with Bruce Forsyth and Elton John. -- zzuuzz (talk) 11:46, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
 * It's the reverse of the Bob Geldof situation. He does get to use KBE after his name because he was appointed a Knight Commander of the Order of the British Empire. It was an honorary award because he's not a citizen of the UK, but he can still use his postnominals.  What he does NOT get is the title Sir. One could be forgiven for thinking otherwise, given the widespread - almost universal - reference to "Sir Bob Geldof".  But those references are all wrong .  I suppose one could put the Sir in quotes to indicate it's a kind of nick name and not a legitimate title - "Sir" Bob Geldof.  But I've never seen anyone do that.  When I come to power, I will make it a capital offence to call Mr Geldof by any higher title than "Mr Geldof".  That should immediately rid the world of about 10 million know-nothing journalists, commentators, celebrities and other undesirables, making it safe once more for ordinary, decent, right-thinking people.  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  07:19, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

Re this comment:

A Knight Bachelor gets "Kt" after his name, as a Baronet gets "Bart". 79.79.140.79 (talk) 12:27, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

Upper case "KT" means "Knight of the Thistle", a different Order of Chivalry. Responding to Jack, the Honours List has a section for Commonwealth Honours. Australian premier Robert Menzies was not a British citizen but he was a Knight of the Thistle and fully entitled to be called Sir. Had he not been a Commonwealth citizen then the situation would have been as Jack describes. It's rather strange that Irish citizens (presuming Bob Geldof is one) aren't entitled to the appellation yet one of the branches of the Peerage is Irish. 80.44.167.110 (talk) 11:37, 3 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Fair call. When I said "he's not a citizen of the UK", I of course meant he's not a citizen of a Commonwealth realm, but given Geldof actually lives in the UK as an expatriate Irish citizen, the point seemed sufficient.  I should have known better, this being the Wikipedia Reference Desk and all.  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  19:48, 3 August 2016 (UTC)