Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2016 May 1

= May 1 =

Salvation Army
A: Can the Salvation Army be considered a different christian church/protestant denomination or is it just an organisation whose members belong to other churches?

B: Are its officers considered ordained christian ministers i) by itself and ii) by mainstream christian churches? 2A02:582:C65:CB00:B0C0:D5:3C78:6A6F (talk) 00:33, 1 May 2016 (UTC)


 * They are a denomination, an offshoot of of Methodism. They refer to themselves as a denomination, distinct from others.  That said, they appear to be fine with volunteers from outside their denomination (though local branches may vary).   Further sources:,.
 * Officers are ordained clergy (ministers), even able to perform weddings and funerals in countries where other protestant ministers are allowed to do so. They're as recognized as often as ministers from other protestant churches.
 * Basically, think of them as Methodists with uniforms, more charity work, but a less open policy towards homosexuals. Ian.thomson (talk) 01:00, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Not so much as a "less open" policy as an "openly discriminatory" policy. They've been advocating against laws protecting gays from discrimination in public accomodation and employment for more than a half century, having been instrumental in defeating New York City's rights law during the Ed Koch administration. - Nunh-huh 01:42, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Despite my support for equal marriage rights, I suppose I'm a bit jaded coming from the American south. The mega-"churches" some of my extended family would exclude any openly gay would-be member until they somehow "repent" of the way God made them. The SA at least lets homosexuals worship, even if the rest of their policies are anti-LGBT.  Ian.thomson (talk) 02:20, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Gay people hardly need the assistance of the Salvation Army to worship! Most gay people wouldn't give a damn about the SA if they'd stop trying to use political actions and contributions to abridge their human rights. - Nunh-huh 06:53, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
 * A rather more liberal approach to the issue can be found on this side of the Atlantic: "The Salvation Army stands against homophobia, which victimises people and can reinforce feelings of alienation, loneliness and despair. We aim to be an inclusive church where members of the LGBT community find welcome and the encouragement to develop their relationship with God."  Alansplodge (talk) 08:46, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
 * They've taken to talking a good game lately, but I really do wonder if in fact LGBT humans find an unconditional welcome across the pond. I hope it's true.- Nunh-huh 06:51, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
 * They had a lot of bad press in the UK last year, but most of it seems to refer to their US colleagues. Alansplodge (talk) 08:11, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
 * In the UK the Salvation Army will happily take money from gay people, and use us for good publicity, but gay people cannot be soldiers in the Salvation Army. DuncanHill (talk) 21:19, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
 * That is an extremely interesting way to "stand against homophobia!" 🙄 And good to know, thanks. - Nunh-huh 06:01, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

so... SA stands against homophobia... As long as gay people don't stand next to them? Blueboar (talk) 00:47, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

US debt 2
37.53.235.112 (talk) 09:17, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

According to release https://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/z1/ (March 10, 2016) https://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/z1/current/z1.pdf page 4 D.3 Debt Outstanding by Sector	1 Billions of dollars; quarterly figures are seasonally adjusted " Domestic nonfinancial sectors				Households					Home	Consumer		Total	Total	mortgage	credit 1984			1971.6	1243.3	526.6 1985			2322.7	1450.2	610.6 1986			2586.9	1649.0	666.4 1987			2788.9	1828.6	698.6 1988			3079.8	2054.8	745.2 1989			3347.6	2260.1	809.3 1990			3606.6	2489.3	824.4 1991			3810.1	2667.4	815.6 1992			4012.8	2840.4	824.8 1993			4277.4	2999.0	886.2 1994			4600.1	3165.5	1021.2 1995			4923.1	3319.2	1168.2 1996			5276.8	3537.3	1273.9 1997			5620.4	3753.2	1344.2 1998			6054.2	4054.7	1441.3 1999			6603.2	4431.6	1553.6 2000			7194.7	4813.9	1741.3 2001			7822.0	5322.0	1891.8 2002			8585.9	6028.0	1997.0 2003			9655.0	6909.9	2102.9 2004			10808.4	7859.5	2220.1 2005			11953.6	8912.5	2320.6 2006			13238.1	9910.2	2461.3 2007			14156.6	10613.0	2615.1 2008			14015.0	10580.1	2650.0 2009			13762.3	10419.3	2552.3 2010			13514.3	9921.6	2646.9 2011			13302.5	9702.0	2755.4 2012			13359.3	9490.8	2922.9 2013			13503.2	9401.2	3098.8 2014			13877.1	9400.6	3317.2 2015			14219.2	9490.6	3533.1 2009 -	- Qi		13869.6	10569.0	2630.4 Q2		13844.5	10530.6	2597.7 Q3		13800.1	10465.4	2577.0 Q4		13762.3	10419.3	2552.3 2010 -	- Qi		13674.6	10275.6	2536.3 Q2		13637.2	10212.2	2519.9 Q3		13572.3	10127.9	2520.6 Q4		13514.3	9921.6	2646.9 2011 -	- Qi		13508.7	9864.9	2673.6 Q2		13429.7	9811.7	2695.9 Q3		13323.1	9756.5	2722.6 Q4		13302.5	9702.0	2755.4 2012 -	- Ql		13336.7	9648.2	2791.7 Q2		13357.9	9594.3	2839.8 Q3		13297.7	9539.0	2877.3 Q4		13359.3	9490.8	2922.9 2013 -	- Ql		13365.4	9450.2	2966.2 Q2		13383.2	9428.4	3006.7 Q3		13470.0	9426.9	3055.3 Q4		13503.2	9401.2	3098.8 2014 -	- Ql		13553.5	9382.9	3147.3 Q2		13716.8	9382.5	3211.8 Q3		13809.3	9381.3	3267.5 Q4		13877.1	9400.6	3317.2 2015 -	- Ql		13924.0	9384.1	3363.4 Q2		14062.0	9432.0	3434.9 Q3		14109.9	9463.1	3496.4 Q4		14219.2	9490.6	3533.1

page 14 F.101 Households and Nonprofit Organizations (1) Billions of dollars; quarterly figures are seasonally adjusted annual rates 2011	2012	2013	2014	2015	- 2014 -		2015												Q3	Q4	Ql	Q2	Q3	Q4 1	Personal income			13254.5	13915.1	14068.4	14694.2	15341.9	14774.8	14955.7	15079.8	15277.0	15443.7	15567.1 2	- Personal current taxes	1453.2	1511.4	1672.8	1780.2	1945.1	1792.0	1838.8	1900.1	1938.7	1957.3	1984.5 3	= Disposable personal income	11801.4	12403.7	12395.6	12913.9	13396.8	12982.7	13116.8	13179.8	13338.3	13486.4	13582.6

But this data doesn't fit with http://www.federalreserve.gov/econresdata/notes/feds-notes/2015/deleveraging-and-recent-trends-in-household-debt-20150406.html Figure1. Only income fits, but debt in e.g. 2013 is 12.5 trillion on figure 1 and 13.5 trillion in release on March 10, 2016.

37.53.235.112 (talk) 14:31, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
 * 13.5 is not household debt. As the title suggests it's "Domestic nonfinancial sectors". Household debt is the sum of mortgage debt and consumer debt, which works out at 12.5. Nonfinancial debt usually includes also borrowing by corporations (except financial corporations), municipal borrowing, etc. No longer a penguin (talk) 06:40, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
 * As the title suggests it's "Domestic nonfinancial sectors". -- I have deleded Total column from D.3 Debt Outstanding by Sector. Second Total column is exactly Households' Home mortgage + Consumer credit - 37.53.235.112 (talk) Wed May 04 08:18:17 UTC 2016 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.238.36.135 (talk) 08:19, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

Northern Ireland GIS website
Most counties in Indiana and Ohio have mounted land records on GIS websites (example), and while the contents vary widely from county to county, most such websites provide the cadastral boundaries, recent sales histories, and minimal details about the buildings on the property — at the minimum.

Is such a thing available in County Antrim, NI? I don't know how to find it, if it exist; with these US counties, <[countyname] [state] gis> normally finds the site, but <"northern ireland" gis antrim> with Google finds almost nothing but ads for "GIS Jobs in County Antrim". Omitting found sites like (ROI, but it mentions NI in passing) and. The latter looks useful, but not being familiar with UK state terminology, I'm not sure what to look for; it seems to be meant for mapping census data, not cadastral data. , found with <"northern ireland" cadastral antrim>, looked promising, but it's seemingly for a specific class of sites, not all properties. Nyttend (talk) 15:41, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
 * The relevant government agency is Land and Property Services, part of the Department of Finance and Personnel. Unfortunately, the agency only gets the briefest of mentions in our Land registration article. Tevildo (talk) 18:05, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
 * The Government of Northern Ireland - Land Registry search allows you to look up individual properties, but there doesn't seem to be any sort of overview. Alansplodge (talk) 08:08, 2 May 2016 (UTC)


 * The dataset you want is Cadastral Parcels NI, and if you want buildings as well, LPS Buildings. Note that Northern Ireland lags behind the rest of the UK in implementing open data, so be careful if you're planning to include this data in a commercial product. Smurrayinchester 08:09, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
 * By the way, at government level, the constituent countries of the UK are a closer match to a US state than a county is. County Antrim itself is really just the name given to a historical region, and wouldn't be involved in publishing data. The local councils (see County Antrim) have similar powers to an American county (but not land registration), but would probably not undertake GIS work. That would be the job of a department of the national government – in this case, the Land and Property Services; in England and Wales, the HM Land Registry; and in Scotland, Registers of Scotland. For this reason, if there's something you're looking for, https://data.gov.uk/ is almost always the best place to start. Smurrayinchester 09:35, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

Middle East races
Is the Jewish race genetically different from the Palestinian race or any of the other Arab nations? In other words, where did the Jews originate? --178.103.251.111 (talk) 15:50, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
 * There is no such thing as a Jewish race nor a Palestinian race nor an Arab race. And except for identical siblings, all humans are genetically unique. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 18:03, 1 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Well it's always possible that a question like this is not in good faith, but assuming that it is, that's a thoroughly useless response...try Genetic studies on Jews for starters. And remember that this kind of question frequently (always?) has political motives. Adam Bishop (talk) 20:53, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
 * He asked if Jews are genetically different from non-Jews. It's a meaningless question. And the OP has already been blocked twice recently for posting garbage. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 20:58, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
 * 23andme.com can compare your DNA to the typical DNA of various population groups and say that, for instance you have 25% Ashkenazi, showing Jewish ancestry. Similary they can show Japanese, Native American, North African, British, Iberian, Subsaharan African, South Asian etc. It is misleading to say everyone is genetically distinct, or that everyone is genetically the same. Besides testing SNPs, you can learn your mitochondrial and paternal haplogroups, and they are distinctive for different population groups. Edison (talk) 22:17, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Population group does not = "race". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 12:40, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
 * See Race. Just because race is a construct does not mean it is not real. Gender is a construct too, but it doesn't make there isn't a biological difference between a typical "male" and a typical "female". --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 10:06, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
 * OK then. What are the differences, if any, between the Israelites and the rest of the Arab nations? Are they just a different tribe from long ago?--178.103.251.111 (talk) 22:27, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Did you read the article titled Genetic studies on Jews? Do you have any specific questions about what that article discusses which could help you in your research?  More references we can provide that that article does not?  There is a lot of good information there.  -- Jayron 32 01:26, 2 May 2016 (UTC)


 * See Semitic race for more details. StuRat (talk) 04:24, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
 * To answer the second question, they originated from here, just like most of the world. --Lgriot (talk) 16:40, 2 May 2016 (UTC)