Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2016 May 2

= May 2 =

To what extent does gross private domestic investment determine the rate of growth?
The article on gross private domestic investment says it "is an important component of GDP because it provides an indicator of the future productive capacity of the economy." To what extent does GPDI actually determine the rate of growth?

Please answer at Talk:Economic growth thanks. EllenCT (talk)

Limbo (needs more definition)
Hello! I was just reading article about Limbo and i have watched Yu Yu Hakusho series English dubbed about 100 times and in episode 66 there is a not only a mention about Limbo but their explanation about it starting after 4-6 minutes depending the video source to watch. So i don't know about original language nothing but i think it should be added as a "reference" or more precisely maybe (Cultural references) in Limbo article what i was trying to find there but no "luck"? For me that is more natural to associate in this subject just like Matrix movies that contains many sub-levels of "religious and theological reality's" which drives the schemes under all violence's to be more "sexy" :).        — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.181.81.207 (talk) 09:02, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Welcome! And thanks very much for your interest in contributing to Wikipedia. You are absolutely right that we like to have references. In this case, however, I don't think we can use the manga as a reference for the Limbo article. Because the article is about a theological concept in Christianity, the best references will be theological ones. The manga is a fictional story, and that means the writers may be putting their own spin on the idea of limbo. We've got a page on identifying reliable sources which explains more - but if you find it hard to follow, you can always ask questions at the friendly Teahouse for new contributors. And when you find a reference that fits the reliable sources criterion, the Teahouse volunteers can show you how to add it to the article. Many thanks again, 184.147.128.57 (talk) 12:44, 2 May 2016 (UTC)


 * I think you could add the mention of limbo in YYH to Limbo. There's already a mention of Devil May Cry. Lots of our editors like to add things like that to articles. So feel free to be WP:BOLD and add it, I say, while also being willing to follow WP:BRD process if needed. SemanticMantis (talk) 15:31, 2 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Well the thing is i see that at least mention should be there, but this is my first time ever to write anything in Wikipedia and English isn't my native language and i write wrong even my own language and it takes years to type. So my hope is that someone capable adopt the idea and nails it there some day? Or i get wiser. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.181.81.207 (talk) 16:01, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

Subnational teams competing at the national level
In many sports tournaments, the Home Nations of the UK have an unusual status - although England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland (and dependencies like Gibraltar and the Isle of Man) aren't sovereign nations, they can all enter their own teams in events like the World Cup. Similarly, there's a Faroe Islands national football team, Hong Kong and Macau maintain their own teams in most sports, and Puerto Rico takes part in the Olympics. Are there other examples like this, where subnational teams compete alongside national ones? (I'm not really interested in cases like the Commonwealth Games, Island Games or the Jeux de la Francophonie which put special restrictions on the teams; while it's true that Quebec and New Brunswick send their own team to the French games and Goa sends its own team to the Portuguese games, these are both regions with a minority language not widely spoken in the rest of the country taking part in games specifically meant for that language.) Smurrayinchester 11:08, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
 * The Iroquois Nationals compete as a separate team in the Federation of International Lacrosse. -- Jayron 32 11:17, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks, that's just the sort of thing I was looking for. Smurrayinchester 14:14, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
 * In the Canadian Senior Curling Championships, in addition to each Canadian province being represented, Northern Ontario, which has no distinct political status, also has a team. --Xuxl (talk) 17:43, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Category:Māori sport teams have competed against national teams in various second-tier competitions. jnestorius(talk) 10:25, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Category:National sports teams lists some others of the Isle-of-Man/Puerto-Rico type. jnestorius(talk) 10:27, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Catalonia is interesting: it was expelled from roller hockey by Spain, but still affiliated in sports with no Spanish team: Racquetball, pitch and putt, and korfball. jnestorius(talk) 12:21, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

Great Cleveland Sickout -- are RNC delegates really required to vote?
As I understand it, Donald Trump is expected shortly to gather enough delegates to win the 2016 Republican National Convention. However, many of those delegates, pledged to vote for him on the first ballot only, actually would desert to Ted Cruz at the first opportunity. And the Republicans have a tradition of using whatever means necessary, and not shying away from government shutdowns or other constitutional crises. So...


 * Some (all?) state ballots came with a vote for "alternate delegate". Are those delegates pledged to anyone?  Does anyone know who they're pledged to?


 * If a delegate fails to show up, is the alternate immediately seated? Can the delegate take over if he shows up later?


 * If the state sends three delegates and the voters picked one alternate, and all of the regular delegates get stuck in an elevator, does the state get fewer votes in the first ballot? What if the alternates don't show up either?


 * Is there any real penalty for a delegate to violate his pledge and vote for the wrong guy? Is there any rule that makes that be counted as a vote for the guy he was pledged for anyway?


 * Is there any real penalty for delegates who intentionally stand outside the convention center eating hot pretzels and handing out Cruz campaign flyers and never bother to go in and vote for Trump on the first ballot?

Wnt (talk) 13:03, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
 * See instructions above "We don't answer requests for opinions, predictions or debate." Please seek other forums on the internet to discuss wild speculations over who will do what at the RNC.  -- Jayron 32 13:09, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
 * These are all questions about the existing rules and what is possible. I'm sure there must have been delegates who did such things before at some time. Wnt (talk) 13:30, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
 * This isn't really the place to have a discussion over possibilities. However, if you want information about the Republican National Convention rules and operations, This looks like a good place to start. -- Jayron 32 13:36, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Well, the problem with that kind of document is the lack of a link to the Rules Report (or any past or draft Rules Report). And it doesn't actually address these particular questions.  I didn't find the actual 2012 rules on a quick search ... must be out there somewhere - finding them would be a start.  But even with those rules in hand, interpreting them, understanding the implications requires substantial legal-ish thinking (though it's not truly law, as the rules are not) so I'd been hoping someone would pull out a  source that had run through a bunch of these scenarios. Wnt (talk) 14:25, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
 * If sources do not exist for you to read, there's nothing anyone here can do to help you research the answers to your questions. -- Jayron 32 14:34, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Also, you mustn't have looked very hard. I typed "republican national convention rules 2012" into Google, and This was the first result.  FWIW, the often-discussed "Rule 40" is there as well, and probably has some information to help you research the answers to some of your questions.  -- Jayron 32 18:20, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Sigh... there was a time when I had a better way to work a search engine. The content on the 23rd page of that PDF addresses voting for the wrong person.  What I'm not so clear on is what happens if the regular and alternate delegates both come down with the Cleveland Flu.  There is also an elaborate contest procedure, which has to begin by June 18, I take it.  It would be interesting if there were some expert analysis of this, as it is not easy to read and accurately interpret the entire document. Wnt (talk) 20:57, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
 * See Democratic Party presidential primaries, 1972 and 1972 Democratic National Convention. In 1972 at the Democratic National Convention, committees ignored a rule against winner-take-all primaries and gave McGovern all the California delegates from their winner-take-all primary even though he had only a small plurality. Then they unseated the Illinois delegation, because it did not have enough women and minorities and seated the unelected Jesse Jackson-William Singer Illinois delegation which was pledged to McGovern, even though McGovern only got 0.3% of the popular vote in the state primary. Perhaps because it would have been futile or would have been detrimental to the party's chances, no one went to court to change the delegate seating nor sought a court ruling to alter the choice of McGovern.  Humphrey and Muskie, strong candidates, quit campaigning and dropped out before the convention. So the question is, if a convention flouted or changed their rules out of process in 2016, how could the aggrieved candidate get a court to make it end his way? A convention could for example use a questionable voice vote to change the rule compelling a delegate to vote as pledged, or could allow abstentions/absences from voting which lowered the total on the first ballot below the required number even without the delegate voting for the other candidate. Could and would a federal judge or a local judge issue a timely injunction to seat one set of delegates rather than another, or to record a different vote total than the chair declared or to allow someone to be nominated if the rules required a win in 8 states to be nominated? Would a judge send police, state troopers or federal marshals to march onto the convention floor and impose his rulings, or jail convention officials for contempt of court? It would give to the world the appearance of a coup, perhaps less savory than a cinvention which was rigged and manipulated without a show of force. There was a recent news story showing a voice vote at the last Republican convention, where the chair, Boehner said the Romney side won a voice vote damaging to the Ron Paul side, reading off his prewritten vote announcement from the teleprompter, when the other side had actually been about as loud. The ruling stood. [Here] is a video of the scripted vote count, and the relative number of aye and nay voices can be heard. Edison (talk) 22:23, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

People and places
There was recently a discussion here about places named after people. I know someone whose first name is the same as that of the road in which she lives, while her last name is the same as that of the road on which I used to live. Can anyone top that? 92.23.52.169 (talk) 14:50, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm afraid that we aren't here for idle chit-chat. If there is a reference you are seeking, can you rephrase your question as one we are likely to provide a reference to?  The question "Can anyone top that?"  is not one that I can find much in the way of reliable sources for you to research from.  -- Jayron 32 14:53, 2 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Luckily for us, though, you have got enough time to post your rude response and share it, ignorant though it is. The original poster has stumbled across the concept of synchronicity, but such coincidences are actually much more common than people realise; see, e.g.. the birthday problem. Other useful, though more tangential, links to explore might include Charles Fort and Fortean Times. 86.164.42.50 (talk) 09:21, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

Cebuano wiki
How does it come that the Cebuano wiki is the third largest? That is, according to List_of_Wikipedias. --Llaanngg (talk) 16:59, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Cebuano Wikipedia says a bot built it. --Golbez (talk) 17:08, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Isn't there a policy against posting automatically gnerated content? That looks more like spam than anything else. --Llaanngg (talk) 17:15, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
 * If there is, I've never seen such a policy. Also, each Wikipedia sets its own policies.  Here at English Wikipedia, our rules have no bearing anywhere else.  -- Jayron 32 17:18, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes. In fact the mass bot creation of articles is the main reason Main Page doesn't list all languages above the listed thresholds. For a time, Meta:Wikipedia article depth was used but it appeared some wikipedias started to get a lot of bot updates to articles. The system was then changed to a somewhat adhoc manual check of the length of about 50 random articles. There was no defined criteria at least initially, and I was concerned that we may be unfair, particularly since we weren't checking the existing ones. However I did a few checks of some of the top ones and while I think I found one or perhaps two that didn't belong, the difference was generally fairly stark. Wikipedia:Volapük Wikipedia was I believe one of the first ones to do a mass bot creation but this they seemed to have mostly stopped now. [//www.wikipedia.org www.wikipedia.org] also had concerns over how to choose the wikipedias for the globe, eventually they settled on number of visits as the criteria. (But for some reason I never understood initially used Alexa figures rather than finding wikimedia ones.) Those listed below the global are still listed by number of articles regardless of anything else however they list all wikipedias unlike the Main Page section. See also Meta:List of Wikipedias Nil Einne (talk) 18:36, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I once tested 50 random Cebuano articles. All 50 were bot-generated stubs. I also examined the page histories. None of them had a single edit by a human. PrimeHunter (talk) 19:26, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
 * It doesn't really change you point, but the page on Microsoft Windows has some human edits: . SemanticMantis (talk) 20:56, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I used ceb:Special:Random. With that it will probably take patience to find any sign of humans. They can be found with other methods. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:35, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
 * History of Wikipedia bots may be of interest. Warofdreams talk 01:39, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

UK Banks issuing MasterCard/Maestro Debit cards
Are there any high street banks that issue MasterCard debit cards? I used to have a Lloyds one attached to a current account, but when I got booted out to TSB, it was replaced by a Visa card. I like to have One visa and one mastercard credit card and one each of debit cards. It means that if one gets lost/damaged/disabled or if the bank in a particular location only accepts one type of card that I stand a chance of getting at some funds. All the main UK banks I've tried seem to be Visa only these days (Nat West, Lloyds, TSB, Halifax, Coop, Post Office, ...) I don't want advice on whether it is a good thing or not, just whether it exists and they have a local building (eg high street bank) I can visit to talk to them. I can't work out what Sainsbury and Tesco do. -- SGBailey (talk) 18:12, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
 * There's some information about Maestro card usage (or the abandonment thereof) in the UK at the Wikipedia article titled Maestro (debit card). -- Jayron 32 18:18, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
 * SO it looks as though the choice is "Yorkshire bank"! Thanks. -- SGBailey (talk) 20:07, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Metro Bank issue MasterCard debit cards on their current accounts. DuncanHill (talk) 20:43, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Bank of Scotland.--Phil Holmes (talk) 09:23, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

Birth and death Statistics
Apostle (talk) 18:34, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
 * 1) How many people are born every second/minute/hour/day/month/year?
 * 2) How many people die every second/minute/hour/day/month/year?
 * http://www.worldometers.info shows a lot of real time day and year figures. Akseli9 (talk) 19:01, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you -- Apostle (talk) 04:38, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
 * A census taker asks a citizen, "What would you say the birth rate is in your neighborhood?" The citizen answers, "I would say it's one to a person." ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 12:53, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
 * "Every moment dies a man, Every moment 1 1/16th is born". DuncanHill (talk) 14:46, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
 * BB & DH:  -- Apostle (talk) 19:50, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

Atlantis
Does Atlantis exist or is it a myth because i beileve in Atlantis and i will find it and i will keep looking i will never give upΨΨΨΨΨΨΨΨΨΨΨΨ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bk4687 (talk • contribs) 19:55, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Good luck with that. -- ‖ Ebyabe talk - Union of Opposites  ‖ 20:06, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
 * See Atlantis - the historical data for some misinterpretations is looking pretty good. They might not have had big hoarking space guns, but the Minoans had indoor plumbing, and in those days, that was some pretty heavy-duty magic.  (hmmm, on looking, that article doesn't give Santorini nearly as much weight as I'd expected) Wnt (talk) 20:59, 2 May 2016 (UTC)


 * In some ways it's nostalgia for "the good old days" when things were perfect - like the Garden of Eden, or Camelot, or 1950s America. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:08, 2 May 2016 (UTC)


 * You have answered your own question. You will never give up your search for Atlantis, so no matter what anybody else says, as far as you're concerned it is, or was, a real place.  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  21:14, 2 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Accepting that you will never stop searching for something is, by implication, a recognition that you know you will never find it. After all, most people stop searching when they find what they are looking for - they don't keep searching forever. 81.132.106.10 (talk) 08:58, 3 May 2016 (UTC)


 * The ocean bottom is pretty well mapped, and there's nothing there that looks like a sunken continent-sized land mass. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:22, 2 May 2016 (UTC)


 * I find it hard to believe that the entirety of the Pacific and Atlantic Ocean floors have been mapped. Not that Atlantis was ever supposed to be in the Indian Ocean, but there are still vast areas of that ocean that are unmapped, which is why Australian hydrographic vessels are still searching for Malaysia Airlines Flight 370, and mapping the ocean floor along the way. I believe they're due to wind up their search/mapping exercise at the end of June, but after 2.5 years they will still leave c. 95% of the Indian Ocean unmapped. --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  21:55, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
 * It depends on how much detail you're looking for. Here's an article from last year on this subject: It's at a scale of 5 kilometers, which is obviously much larger than an airplane. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 22:29, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
 * As Bugs and This article notes, the entire ocean floor has been mapped to a resolution so the smallest feature we can see has a scale of about 5 km. An entire missing continent (for which we have no mechanism for explaining how it would suddenly disappear) would be easily findable under those conditions.  -- Jayron <b style="color:#090">32</b> 12:04, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Maybe it evolved into the ocean named in its honour. I mean, look for wings on a T-Rex and you'll come away disappointed, but we're reliably informed dinosaurs evolved into birds.  Just sayin'.  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  23:23, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Dinosaurs did - T rex didn't. 81.132.106.10 (talk) 17:46, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

Front matter
In the front matter of the Penguin Book of Love Poetry exists the following:

"First published by Allen Lane 1973

First published in the United States with the title A Book of Love Poetry by Oxford University Press, New York 1974

Published in Penguin Books 1976

13 15 17 19 20 18 16 14 12"

What might be the meaning of these numbers? 2A02:582:C65:CB00:F4E6:21A5:5B7B:AF57 (talk) 23:50, 2 May 2016 (UTC)


 * I've always understood them to be a form of issue number. You have the 12th reprint of this particular Penguin edition. The lowest number is removed with each reprint. All OR, sadly, for the moment. --Tagishsimon (talk) 23:56, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Here we go - Printer's key --Tagishsimon (talk) 23:58, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much!!! 2A02:582:C65:CB00:F4E6:21A5:5B7B:AF57 (talk) 00:31, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
 * At the bottom left - hand corner of the front page of the Daily Telegraph (where the barcode now is) there used to be the letters ABCDEFG, of which one was overprinted with a mark.  I took that to indicate the edition number.   Looking at my copy of this morning's paper I see that the word FINAL is printed at the top left - hand corner of this page.   In the old days, you could tell how stale your copy was by glancing at the STOP PRESS column on this page, but maybe now it's easier to just update the text on the word processor.   One other thing I've noticed is either two or three asterisks (**, ***) beside the page number (the front page doesn't have a page number).   Can anyone explain their significance? 92.23.52.169 (talk) 11:57, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I can't speak for the Telegraph, but this book on the Boston Globe states that asterisks also indicate the edition of the newspaper. Warofdreams talk 01:32, 4 May 2016 (UTC)