Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2016 November 2

= November 2 =

He Shi Bi
So according to Chinese traditional history, the jade disc He Shi Bi was carved into the Heirloom Seal of the Realm. My question is how was a flat jade disk carve into a seal (which is usually depicted as a raised square with a sculpture on top)?--KAVEBEAR (talk) 00:27, 2 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Well... according to the article, the disk was carved. Blueboar (talk) 02:14, 2 November 2016 (UTC)


 * If it lacks the depth for the full sculpture, perhaps something more in the line of a bas relief was done. StuRat (talk) 03:21, 2 November 2016 (UTC)
 * It's true that the seal is usually depicted as a raised square and the He Shi Bi as a disc, and it seems difficult to imagine how one would have been reworked into the other - but it's not impossible, the disc could have been quite thick or as StuRat points out the seal might have been quite shallow. Perhaps the disc contributed only the imprinting surface (the die), fitted into a separate object that acted as the press or handle. There is also a different theory that it was carved from an entirely unrelated piece of jade. But there are at least three different imprints known from historical records, so it's quite likely that the same seal was not passed down through the dynasties as is claimed. Plus, neither object has been seen for hundreds of years so all the theories are more or less speculation. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 16:15, 2 November 2016 (UTC)


 * What we need here are sourced illustrations or descriptions from ancient literature - I'm not sure how to find these, but arguing from first principles is kind of silly. If you do a search like  you can get a sense for what a regular jade bi looks like now and in neolithic times, but that may be misleading.  And you can get images for imperial seals made hundreds of years after the first one was lost, which are indeed very thick.  I mean, I could speculate that layers of jade from the original object could have been stacked up or so, but not with my mouth, only the other end. Wnt (talk) 23:51, 2 November 2016 (UTC)

INEGI and Google cooperation
Every Google Maps page contains the copyright attribution "Map data ©20XX Google, INEGI" at the bottom.

1. Where can I read more about this cooperation between INEGI and Google?

2. What's special about Mexico's geographical service that resulted in this unique partnership? As in, what advantage does INEGI have over other geographical services like the British Geological Survey or the U.S. Geological Survey for example? Pizza Margherita (talk) 09:01, 2 November 2016 (UTC)


 * I've just looked at a couple of Google Maps pages,, and I get that only if I'm looking at a place in Mexico. If I'm looking at a place in the US or the UK, it says "Map data ©2016 Google" at the bottom: no mention of INEGI. --ColinFine (talk) 09:56, 2 November 2016 (UTC)


 * It does seem to vary from country to country: I see that China is just labelled "Map data ©20XX" (without the word Google), while Japan has "Map data ©20XX Google ZENRIN." I have looked at a few other countries, but not spotted any other variants - though the INEGI one does appear on maps of Cuba. I imagine that in these cases Google have been unable to find free maps, so have had to pay copyright and acknowledge that. Wymspen (talk) 10:30, 2 November 2016 (UTC)

Slavery
During the transatlantic slave trade, were women also shackled and chained during the middle passage? --Pike-Pilet (talk) 11:02, 2 November 2016 (UTC)
 * This seems to answer your question directly. -- Jayron 32 12:42, 2 November 2016 (UTC)

How much of the Chechen-Ingush ASSR declared independence?
On November 1, 1991, a region declared independence from the Soviet Union as the "Chechen Republic of Ichkeria". However, at the time, "Chechnya" was not a separate republic in the Russian SFSR - it was part of the Chechen-Ingush ASSR. Chechnya was made a separate republic in 1993. So, what specific region declared independence? (Or, to put another way: What were the self-proclaimed borders of the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria) Was it the entirety of the Chechen-Ingush ASSR, or was it solely the area that would later become the Republic of Chechnya in 1993? Our article on the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria says it is the "secessionist government of the Chechen Republic," but since said republic did not exist until 1993, what were its claimed borders from 1991 to 1993? --Golbez (talk) 20:53, 2 November 2016 (UTC)

Voting question, United States
Is it true that in strongly republican states, there are fewer polling sites in predominantly African American areas?144.35.45.56 (talk) 21:46, 2 November 2016 (UTC)


 * This Mother Jones article might be a good place to start. -- ToE 00:51, 3 November 2016 (UTC)


 * We have various articles here on Wikipedia detailing the "dirty tricks" which allegedly take place in U.S. elections, and the various means used to frustrate your opponents' supporters' ability to vote. I will say that I believe both sides of the election play this game. Can someone provide some links to the relevant articles? It's probably not strictly about race, per se - as I said, it's about making it difficult or impossible to vote, for those who are likely to vote for your opponent (and blacks tend to vote Democratic more often than not). Groups besides blacks do get attacked with these tactics too. I know we have an article on the subject, but I forgot the title - can anyone provide the OP with a link? 110.140.69.137 (talk) 14:35, 3 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Ah, I found it. See Voter suppression in the United States. It's a long article, but it probably best describes the phenomena you're interested in. 110.140.69.137 (talk) 14:39, 3 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Rich, white voters aren't as vulnerable to historic or current voter suppression methods. If you have a car, you can get to the polls, whenever they are open, but not so if you must risk losing your job to skip work, and then take a bus, with a limited schedule.  If you are rich, a poll tax is no barrier, but it is if you are poor.  If you've graduated school, a literacy test is no barrier.  If you're rich and white, you are less likely to be convicted of a crime, and disenfranchised in that way.  For example, a rich white person carrying a gun is "exercising their Constitutional right to bear arms" while a poor, black person doing the same thing is "brandishing a firearm" and is arrested and/or shot. StuRat (talk) 17:02, 4 November 2016 (UTC)


 * StuRat, your answer would have been better had you skipped your final sentence, which diverges from the question. The goal of voter suppression is usually based on targeting your political opponents amongst the electorate, not those of a particular race as such. However, you are correct that poor blacks are more vulnerable to such tactics than rich whites. If you have a car and there's a huge queue at your local voting booth because the area predominantly votes the way the suppressor doesn't want, you can drive to a booth in an area with "friendly" voters (those likely to vote the way the suppressor wants), where there will likely be little or no queue. No car, you're stuck. But if voter suppressors could target rich whites effectively too, I have little doubt they would do so, and various tactics targeting rich whites have no doubt been tried, albeit most likely with less success. Eliyohub (talk) 08:10, 7 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Not really. You have to vote in your assigned precinct. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 08:30, 7 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Oh - I didn't know that, in my country it's different. Interesting question: The constitution guarantees the right to a speedy trial in all criminal prosecutions. What about any implied right to a speedy vote? If the voter suppressors deliberately under-resource polling booths in precincts which they know will favour the opposition, resulting in hours-long queues and many giving up, and there's the possibility that it affected the election outcome in a given election, could a voter or candidate challenge the result in court? Would it matter whether this was due to a deliberate tactic of voter suppression, or rather a simple lack of allocating adequate resources? Would the courts see any limit to how long a voter can be forced to wait to cast his vote, before the integrity of the election gets legally called into question, as people are pressured or forced into giving up, or seeing the extreme queue, don't even try? Any precedent on this? Eliyohub (talk) 14:07, 7 November 2016 (UTC)


 * This site gives information on state laws regarding employers giving employees time off to vote. This page covers the laws in NC regarding the amount of time required for early voting.  This seems to be a comprehensive site for federal voting regulations.  It may lead you places.  This pdf mentions something about the legality of extending polling hours.  This site gives a state-by-state run down of normal polling place hours (i.e. on Election Day).  I hope that gives you a start.  -- Jayron 32 14:25, 7 November 2016 (UTC)


 * It gives me a start, and I'm sure somewhere on the site you refer to as "leading me places" in the "cases" section, there must be at least one case on under-resourcing polling booths, and the resulting extreme queues. But it feels somewhat like trying to find a needle in a haystack. Anyone able to help? Eliyohub (talk) 15:00, 7 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Yes, a large number of refs with no specifics about what page on which ref to find your answer is of limited value.


 * One complicating factor in US elections is that the poll workers are often volunteers, so the government can always blame slow polls on a lack of volunteers. Some of the same factors that make it hard for poor people to get to the polls also make it hard for them to volunteer as poll workers.  That is, if they must depend on bus service, don't have child care, need to work that day or lose their job, etc., then they can't volunteer, unlike a rich, bored housewife in the suburbs. StuRat (talk) 15:34, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Is there any Asian thinker regarded as an Analytic philosopher? (please see two other related questions below)
European and American analytic philosophers argue that the values and aspirations of the analytic tradition, such as clarity and rigor, are meant to be universal. Some writers even say that analytic philosophy has already taken roots in Asian and African academic societies. But when we study analytic philosophy, we almost never hear about the involvement of any non-western thinker in the development of the tradition. In fact, in most philosophy books or online sources, the term "analytic philosopher" refers almost exclusively to British, American, and other European thinkers. The under-representation, or probably non-inclusion, of Asian thinkers in the 21st century analytic philosophy is a direct blow against the aspiration to make this tradition truly universal.

There is no doubt that analytic philosophy is a western invention. But I find it hard to sustain that up until now, not a single Asian thinker has produced any serious work enough to qualify him or her as an analytic philosopher. One might say that Jaegwon Kim is an exemption. Yes, he has Asian roots, but technically, he grew up and received education in a western country. What I am really interested in are those Asian "analytic" thinkers who grew up and spent most of their lives in their native country.

This brings me to my three questions -

(1) Is there any contemporary Asian thinker regarded as an analytic philosopher?

(2) Am I wrong to think that analytic philosophy was meant to be confined in western, English-speaking countries? And

(3) Is there any movement in contemporary philosophy aimed at making analytic philosophy, or any other western philosophical tradition, truly inclusive and universal?Dpa2019 (talk) 22:05, 2 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia has a category titled Category:Analytic philosophers. You're free to look through it to see if it helps your research.  -- Jayron 32 01:12, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I noticed Tsang Lap Chuen there. Also Joseph Raz if you count Israeli's as Asian although a fair amount of his career seems to have been spent outside Israel. Then there's Nayef Al-Rodhan and Anil Gupta (philosopher) who seem to have a similar story to Jaegwon Kim (well I'm not sure where either grew up or in the case of Gupta even where he was born). Nil Einne (talk) 04:14, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Keiji Nishitani, Hao Wang, Kah Kyung Cho, Yasuo Yuasa, Bimal Krishna Matilal, Yujian Zheng etc. all show up under various philosophy categories and there are more too, though they may be underrepresented here on the English wikipedia. See Category:Philosophers_by_field and its subcats. 50.0.136.56 (talk) 02:31, 5 November 2016 (UTC)