Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2016 September 6

= September 6 =

tune and national costume ID
this, 16:23 into the video. The presenter chases the folk dancers away with a fire extinguisher and calls them vermin, adding "it's the only language they understand." I'd like to know on behalf of which (looks like something Central European, or Slavic) nation to be offended :) Asmrulz (talk) 02:49, 6 September 2016 (UTC)

maybe I'm overthinking it but I'm seriuosly triggered, even as a non-Slav. What if dey was black performing some traditional African dance. Asmrulz (talk) 03:05, 6 September 2016 (UTC)

Do ankle bells actually feature in any European folk costume? Also, flower wreaths, a symbol of virginity, look odd on men Asmrulz (talk) 03:20, 6 September 2016 (UTC)


 * Those are Morris dancers and there is a longstanding love/hate relationship with them in the UK. They have been the butt of many a joke on shows that I have seen since the 1960s. OTOH there are people who enjoy their traditional dancing. MarnetteD&#124;Talk 03:27, 6 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Cool, thanks. I didn't know this existed and was a thing. I'm scrapping my angry letter to Channel 4 :) Asmrulz (talk) 03:56, 6 September 2016 (UTC)
 * You are welcome A. MarnetteD&#124;Talk 04:34, 6 September 2016 (UTC)


 * Although Asmrulz's comment was meant to be humorous, black-face is part of the Morris dance tradition (in some areas) -- so you might need to go to the nearest safe-space and seek solace. 107.15.152.93 (talk) 06:08, 6 September 2016 (UTC)


 * It says something about the curious attitude of we English to our national identity; whereas most European nations, even Scotland, view their national dances as cultural icons, in England it's considered acceptable to heap ridicule upon our own, even though Morris isn't inherently more ridiculous than the jogging-about of other races. "Patriotism is not enough". Alansplodge (talk) 15:26, 6 September 2016 (UTC)
 * I think it's the same as it being appropriate to celebrate St Patrick's Day and St Andrew's Day, but not St George's Day. Scottish and Irish cultural practices (not sure about the rest of Europe) are tied to notions of preserving national identity in the face of oppression, whereas the English were the oppressors. --Viennese Waltz 15:40, 6 September 2016 (UTC)
 * So how long do we English have to be oppressed by the Normans before we get the same considerations? [Disclaimer: theoretical stance – hereditarily, I'm as much Scottish, Cornish, Danish (or German) and (probably) Jewish as I am English.] {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.202.211.191 (talk) 17:30, 6 September 2016 (UTC)
 * "How long" is relevant; language aside, the Normans merged into English culture (they were a military/political elite, not an entire nation), and while elements such as the Robin Hood ballads haven't been forgotten, they're a distant memory of the day when the Normans were still distinct. Religion historically has been an issue: since the early modern era, Wales and Scotland (not to mention Ireland) haven't been majority-Anglican, and the Norman-descended monarchs led the way in separating Anglicanism from Catholicism.  After nearly a thousand years, with the last practical elements of rule from the Norman-descended elite having been ended in 1911, who cares?  It's like in Russia: nobody complained about Norwegian dominance in the early modern period, even though a Norse-descended dynasty ruled until 1598.  Nyttend (talk) 16:36, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Fair comments, although I recall a recent (2011) socioeconomic study (see for example http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/8424904/People-with-Norman-names-wealthier-than-other-Britons.html) purporting to show that families of Norman descent are still today disproportionally represented amongst the wealthier classes in England (if not the UK as a whole). {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.202.211.191 (talk) 16:48, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
 * So it's those pesky Normans who are rubbishing our Morris dancing then? About time they went back home if you ask me! Alansplodge (talk) 10:08, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

Toponymy of the Ozarks
I was looking at a map of the Ozark region, and I noticed that it contains the Salem Plateau, the Springfield Plateau and the Boston Mountains. Were these named by somebody from Massachusetts? --Lazar Taxon (talk) 05:45, 6 September 2016 (UTC)


 * There are Bostons, Salems and Springfields all over the USA - including ones in Missouri in the area of the Ozarks. It is difficult to determine whether the geographical features were named for the towns, or vice versa. It is also difficult to determine whether the names derive from the places in Massachusetts, or even from the much older places in the UK that those places were originally named after. A town called Boston was probably established by som eone from Boston - but which Boston? Wymspen (talk) 08:38, 6 September 2016 (UTC)


 * Is there a Salem or a Springfield in Britain? I did once pass through New York. —Tamfang (talk) 00:10, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes. See Salem and Springfield. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:49, 8 September 2016 (UTC)


 * The etymology of the Boston Mountains is explained here. -- Jayron 32 11:57, 6 September 2016 (UTC)


 * Well, for a baby-steps value of ‘explained’. Disappointing! —Tamfang (talk) 00:10, 8 September 2016 (UTC)