Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2017 December 10

= December 10 =

Christian restorationist sects and how similar they are to the Apostolic Age and other sects in Early Christianity
Following on my earlier question on Early Christianity, based on what is currently known from an archaeological and historical perspective, what practices and beliefs of Christian restorationist groups (such as the Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Adventists, Iglesia ni Cristo, etc.) are known to have actually been practiced during the Apostolic Age, and perhaps during Early Christianity? And following from that, what present day restorationist and non-restorationist churches have the most similar beliefs and practices to Apostolic Age Christianity? I'm aware that per the previous question, Early Christianity was diverse and there wasn't really a single unified sect called "Christianity" yet at the time, so I'm limiting this question to the Apostolic Age and perhaps some time after, as most restorationist churches claim to restore Christianity to a state "similar to the Christianity of Jesus and his apostles" (paraphrased) and refer to the Apostolic Age in their writings. Also, the question can also refer to specific sects during the Apostolic Age in addition to general themes and activities. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 05:19, 10 December 2017 (UTC)


 * I'm very strongly skeptical -- the early church seems to have been strongly opposed to the kind of "date-setting" which was the predominant force among Millerites (who were the origin of Adventism and had a significant influence on the development of JW's, who continued the "date-setting" tradition well into the second half of the 20th century). Also, the strong emphasis in Christianity after non-Jewish converts became predominant was to only require Christians to obey "moral" commandments of traditional Jewish law (not "ritual" or "ceremonial" commandments -- you can see the beginnings of this in Bible verse Acts 21:25), so the kind of interpretation which led to the JW ban on blood transfusion (something which has never been a part of actual Jewish interpretations of Jewish law, by the way) would contradict this.  And Mormons use the title of "elder" to refer to teenagers.  If they want to be originalist, then they should use the word "elder" for actual elders... AnonMoos (talk) 11:26, 10 December 2017 (UTC)


 * The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and similar smaller churches (i.e. "Mormons") have many innovations and surprising ideas (like the 10 Lost Tribes of Israelites became Native Americans) not supported by non-Mormon evidence though they'd probably say it just hasn't been found yet. Jehovah's Witnesses say their Bible ("New World Translation") is supernaturally corrected but their Bible doesn't agree with everyone else's. Non-Witnesses would say they just went through an existing Bible with no supernatural knowledge of the lost first 1st century manuscripts and changed things every so often (including every non-Yahwist mention of God to Jehovah, which scholars think is a Medieval pronunciation less likely to be the unknown vowels and exact 1st and 3rd consonent of the Tetragrammation than the modern best guess) I don't know enough about Iglesia ni Cristo from a short time on its article to guess how close they are to the original church but there are likely restorationist Christian churches closer to the first church than the other three. It also matters how early a church to go back to because there were changes very early before some of the Bible was even written. Like Peter and many other Christians thinking Gentile Christians should have to follow full Mosaic Law and be circumcised even if they were adults or above the age of memory and that would hurt like hell. In Acts he changed his mind after a sheet came down from heavens with non-kosher animals on it and a voice told him to "kill and eat" and not be bound by prohibitions God doesn't prohibit any more. Atheists of course would say this didn't actually happen and he either hallucinated or the animal sheet was made up (possibly long after he's dead). Or aliens were messing with him. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 22:59, 10 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Mormon groups are not really restorationist Christians. A large part of their theology derives from a new set of supposedly divinely-inspired religious texts, and from angelic visions supposedly experienced by founder Joseph Smith. They have diverged a lot from the beliefs of other Christian groups. As for knowing the theological doctrines of early Christians, it may be difficult to figure out due to the often fragmentary nature of the sources and their lack of accuracy. The historicity of the Acts of the Apostles (written c. 80s-90s AD) has long been in doubt, because its depiction of Christian history contradicts the information featured in the Pauline epistles (most of them, if genuine, written in the 50s AD). It may represent the views of a specific subset of Christians in the late 1st century. The author or authors were likely the same with the Gospel of Luke (written in very similar style), and the intended audience were probably Greek-speaking Christians with a decent amount of Greco-Roman education. The relatively positive depictions of Romans and the Roman Empire in the Acts, has led historians to suspect that the intended audience were themselves Romans, or at least Roman citizens. Dimadick (talk) 11:13, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Note that "Tetragrammation" is a redirect to Tetragrammaton. 86.171.242.205 (talk) 17:39, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I never noticed that before. Thanks. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 22:22, 11 December 2017 (UTC)