Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2017 February 15

= February 15 =

Historical or semi- or quasi-historical novels or romans a clef in which Donald Trump has appeared as a major or minor character
Wikipedia reports:

"A parody of Trump is the main villain in the 1992 The Destroyer novel Ghost in the Machine.[21][22] Andrew Shaffer's satirical book, The Day of the Donald (2016), imagines Trump winning the election and discusses his second year as America's 45th president.[23]  Jacob M. Appel's novel, The Mask of Sanity (2017), describes a high functioning sociopath modeled on Trump."

This seems like a surprisingly short list. Anybody know of other novels in which Trump is fictionalized? He's been around for a long time, and novels often are set in the not-too-distant past. (For example, one can imagine a Trump-like character appearing in Tom Wolfe's Bonfire of the Vanities or A Man In Full.) 2602:304:CDA0:9220:91C7:E10A:2FC1:38C1 (talk) 00:53, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Biff Tannen—particularly his future depiction in Back to the Future Part II—is modeled on Trump. clpo13(talk) 00:59, 15 February 2017 (UTC)


 * How can we forget the classic Trump Temptation: The Billionaire and the Bellboy. More of a short story than a novel, though.
 * Written in four hours by comedian Elijah Daniel, after he mooted the idea on Twitter (“I’m going to get drunk tonight and write an entire donald trump sex novel like 50 shades of grey & put it on amazon tomorrow i swear to god”), Trump Temptation: The Billionaire and the Bellboy was published last week after Daniel was deluged with comments urging him to go ahead. It is currently No 1 in Amazon.com’s gay erotica chart, No 1 in its humorous erotica chart, and fourth in its Kindle erotica chart.
 * Carbon Caryatid (talk) 19:35, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

Suicide Rates Amongst Existential Nihlists.
[Moved here from the math ref desk]

Does anyone know the suicide rate amongst existential nihilists? Americanfreedom (talk) 00:25, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
 * First, how would you determine who all are existential nihilists? Unless you're only talking about famous ones. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 02:22, 15 February 2017 (UTC)


 * What's behind the question? I would guess people who profess to such beliefs have a higher suicide rate - but they probably were already of a gloomy mindset and looked for such things. Depression can cause people to think their life is not worth living. But people who don't think there is any intrinsic meaning in life  or the universe or anything can be just as happy as anyone else, and they probably wouldn't bother reading such stuff much more than anyone else. A lot of A do B does not mean a lot of B do A, your first choice of the Maths Reference Desk would be the place to ask about how conditional probabilities lead people astray in assessing things. Dmcq (talk) 12:13, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

Madoc
Was Madoc a legendary figure with a real father, or was he a real person who got transformed into a legend, like the real British petty king whose story was transformed into King Arthur? Or do we not know? 208.95.51.115 (talk) 14:39, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Probably unknown or unknowable. As noted in the article Madoc, the first written account of such a figure is either Willem die Madoc maecte (c. 1250) or Maredudd ap Rhys (c. 1400).  Either way, such accounts would have occurred more than a century after Madoc was reported to have lived.  Just remember that Medieval chronicles, such as Historia Regum Britanniae and the Ynglinga saga, while they were once considered "historical", often well into modern times, are now considered entirely fanciful.  Unless such accounts can be independently verified (such as by contemporary documents or engravings) then the degree to which the figures named in them are actual historical figures should be considered an open question.  There are figures from the Madoc legend which HAVE been independently verified, like Owain Gwynedd, for which we have sources contemporary to his life.  There was a contemporary figure Madog ap Maredudd, for which we do have reliable accounts, but it appears that he is not considered to be the same person.  -- Jayron 32 15:00, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

Tehran-Mashhad railway
In what year did the in Iran begin operating? -- M2545 (talk) 14:52, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
 * 1966. Omidinist (talk) 19:18, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks. -- M2545 (talk) 11:43, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

Thought experiment about culpability for accidental killing of a suicidal person
I am trying to find a thought experiment scenario (I think I've seen this quoted as a final exam question for law students) which goes something like this: Person A is suicidal and jumps off a tall apartment building. In the building, Person B fires a gun at Person C, but misses and the bullet goes through the window, hitting A. B was trying to threaten C but didn't know the gun was loaded, and there are further complicating factors. The question is to determine who, if anyone, is culpable for the killing of A. I can't think of anything specific enough to Google for this, so help finding it would be appreciated. 2602:306:321B:5970:9C57:D2B8:6A37:26C8 (talk) 14:56, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
 * See Ronald Opus. -- Jayron 32 15:05, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
 * That is the famous source, but our article doesn't really address the real issue of cause/culpability. Since it's just a story, the speaker can end in any way they choose. In this case, they simply say the case was closed as suicide, but that's just like, their opinion, man :) Perhaps I'll add some of the links below to the "see also" section of that article... SemanticMantis (talk) 15:48, 15 February 2017 (UTC)


 * I asked a similar question here about a year ago! I got some good answers and references, please see that thread. Causation_(law) covers some of the legal aspects, but IMO there is still plenty left to ponder on the philosophical side. Also perhaps relevant is Joint_and_several_liability. SemanticMantis (talk) 15:45, 15 February 2017 (UTC)


 * thank your both, that's the story I was thinking of! I'll check out the old discussion thread later when I have more time. 2602:306:321B:5970:4CEB:7FAC:B2F3:C7B6 (talk) 15:57, 15 February 2017 (UTC)


 * He wouldn't die before impact unless it damaged the brain stem or was a damn long fall. Even whole body removal takes 13 seconds to kill. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 17:26, 15 February 2017 (UTC)


 * You know, unless he were shot with a rocket propelled grenade with sufficient explosive force to reduce him to centimeter-scale chunks of meat. I'm pretty sure that would mean he died before he hit the pavement.  -- Jayron 32 18:53, 15 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Dead is brain dead. It would take a very long fall to die of mere bleeding before the time the ground would've killed him anyway if he wasn't shot. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 19:34, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
 * If your brain is in tiny pieces raining down upon the land below intermingled with other parts of your body, it's hard to argue it was alive before the bits of it hit the ground. -- Jayron 32 03:10, 16 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, that is the overkill method. Congratulations, you have found the gray area of dead (how damaged a brain stem before you're dead?) Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 04:49, 16 February 2017 (UTC)


 * But in the "Ronald Opus" version at least (I don't know about other tellings of the same basic concept) there's a safety net, so the victim wouldn't have hit the ground. This makes it clear that the shot is what killed him, which is relevant to the question of whether the shooter is culpable. 132.239.165.115 (talk) 19:55, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
 * We do not offer legal information or advice.--WaltCip (talk) 19:01, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
 * You forgot to add the smiley face emoticon to the end of that. See Poe's law.  -- Jayron 32 19:07, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Note that in the Ronald Opus story, there is a specific answer to the question of culpability, which follows from a close consideration of the specified facts. In contrast, law school criminal law classes typically feature the use of hypothetical situations ("hypos") that are intended to elicit thought and discussion and that do not have a clear answer.  The most familiar of these, at least to me, is "Who killed Abdul?"  In the story, Abdul is an Arab who is planning a trip into the desert.  Abdul, however, is unpopular, and his enemies know of the planned trip.  The night before Abdul is to leave, A surreptitiously replaces the water in Abdul's canteen with wine, which will not be sufficient to keep Abdul alive in the desert.  Subsequently, B drains the wine, not noticing that it is not water, and fills the canteen with sand.  After this, C empties the canteen, in his haste not noticing that it contained sand and not water.  The next morning Abdul goes into the desert with an empty canteen, and he dies there for lack of water.  Who killed Abdul?  John M Baker (talk) 19:40, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
 * That one's easy: A did, because he's the one who drained the water. A more interesting version is where X poisoned the water and Y drained it.  Abdul died of thirst, but he lived longer than if had drunk the poison.  So X's poison did not kill him and Y's action did not shorten his life.  Who then is guilty of murder?  I say death was accidental and both X and Y are guilty of attempted murder. --76.71.6.254 (talk) 00:20, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

Shahid Heydarian Stadium in Qom
In what year did the Shahid Heydarian Stadium in Qom, Iran, open? -- M2545 (talk) 14:57, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Hardly being a major stadium (it only hosts 2nd and 3rd division games), I can't locate that info. But the current ownership and management falls under the Ministry of Youth Affairs and Sports (Iran), whose website is at . If you can read Persian, or use google translate, I suppose you can email them, if you really want to know. The other source who might have that info is one of the Qom-based football teams which uses the stadium as their home ground. Sorry I can't be more help, it somewhat surprises me we have an article on the stadium at all, given that it's clearly second-tier, and only holds 3,000. In fact, does it even meet wikipedia notability guidelines? Eliyohub (talk) 17:11, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks. -- M2545 (talk) 11:43, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

Takhti Stadium in Qom
In what year did the Takhti Stadium (Qom) in Iran open? -- M2545 (talk) 14:58, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
 * The Qom Province League would be the ones to address this question to. Not sure how to get their contact info, as I don't read persian. Another largely non-notable stadium, used by the lowest rung of Iranian football. Perhaps the Football Federation Islamic Republic of Iran can give you their contact details, or you can use a persian-language search engine. Eliyohub (talk) 17:15, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks. -- M2545 (talk) 11:43, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

Qom railway station
In what year did the Qom railway station in Iran begin operating? -- M2545 (talk) 14:59, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
 * The line began operating in 1939, apparently? See . Not the best source, perhaps, but I have no reason to doubt it. Diesel locomotive operations to Qom began September 1943 - see out article Trans-Iranian_Railway Eliyohub (talk) 17:21, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks. -- M2545 (talk) 11:43, 17 February 2017 (UTC)