Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2017 January 22

= January 22 =

In what era was the developed world's imports from the developing the highest percent of the latter's GDP?
Before decolonization? Or later, when this part of the world gained more manufacturing? If the percent's still rising is it expected to decrease when rising standards of living causes the developing world to buy enough of its own production (i.e. India using its own call centers or buying Brazilian Embraer's) or will the peak likely be when country X flips to developed according to whatever authority you're using causing a downward discontinuity in the average GDP:sustenance-level GDP of the remainder? Might one of these flips be the peak, maybe in the unforeseeably far future? (international trade as a whole is still rising I think) Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 03:53, 22 January 2017 (UTC)


 * A general answer to your question would seem to require a very large amount of research, but here's one particular case: It's notorious among some that India was exporting cotton cloth to Britain in the 18th century, but with mechanization/industrialization in Britain and colonial policies which discouraged cloth production in India, it ended up importing cotton cloth from Britain during the majority of the 19th century. Gandhi's "homespun" movement was partly about this.  There's little bit about this at articles Muslin and Khadi... AnonMoos (talk) 10:37, 23 January 2017 (UTC)

Monotheism and Plato
I've been re-reading Plato's dialogues and one thing that puzzles me is that in some places Socrates talks of "God" as opposed to "the Gods". So for example in Ion he is talking about where inspiration for poets comes from he says "and therefor God takes away the minds of poets, and uses them as his ministers" and "For in this way God would seem to indicate to us and not allow us to doubt that those beautiful poems are not human or the work of man but divine and the work of God"  (this is in the free Guttenberg Kindle translation). I recall many passages like this in what I've read in the past as well and I've always wondered about it. Are these examples just Christian translators loosely translating "the divine" or "the Gods" into "God" or was Plato actually in some sense an advocate for monotheism? --MadScientistX11 (talk) 17:06, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Does this help? Matt Deres (talk) 18:49, 22 January 2017 (UTC)


 * There is no indefinite article in Greek - "God does this" could just as correctly be translated as "a god does this" (and in the context of a polytheistic religion, probably should be). Wymspen (talk) 22:15, 22 January 2017 (UTC)


 * In Jewish and Christian usage, at least, the ancient Greek word θεος was often preceded by the definite article (ὁ in nominative singular) when referring to monotheistic God (as in the Septuagint of Genesis 1:1)... AnonMoos (talk) 10:10, 23 January 2017 (UTC)


 * In this particular passage, which you can see starting here on Perseus, he does say "ὁ θεὸς", "the god". He mentions Dionysus just before that, but since he is talking about the Muses here, "the god" probably means Apollo. He mentions "the gods" in general further on in the passage. Adam Bishop (talk) 10:30, 23 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Socrates' ideas of divinity were odd in the eyes of his contemporaries (one reason for his death sentence was "impiety"), so is it reasonable to wonder whether he might have used normal words abnormally? 208.95.51.72 (talk) 13:38, 23 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks to everyone. Very useful, that cleared it up. Matt Deres that link was especially informative. --MadScientistX11 (talk) 01:13, 24 January 2017 (UTC)


 * The charges were more inspired by civil reasons than religious ones I believe. Many other famous Greeks were atheists or believed in strange things and were never treated like this, though their writings have been selectively destroyed by Christians in the intervening centuries. Dmcq (talk) 17:07, 24 January 2017 (UTC)


 * There would be very little left of ancient Greek literature, if not for writings preserved by Christians... AnonMoos (talk) 06:14, 25 January 2017 (UTC)


 * I'm not certain what you are trying to say there that is relevant to the query. The point I was making about selectively destroyed by Christians is that such filtering may be coloring our interpretation. That one can read Plato's writings as supporting a single God almost certainly contributed to them surviving intact as opposed to the writings of Democritus for example, and yes Christian copyists would have accentuated any support they perceived for monotheism. Dmcq (talk) 10:28, 26 January 2017 (UTC)


 * About 95% of ancient Greek literature which still exists does so because Christians chose to preserve it. So if you think that some work of ancient Greek literature was lost because Christians "destroyed it", then in the great majority of cases you would be wrong, since no active destruction was required -- merely a lack of a choice to preserve. Plato was deeply embedded in the culture of Greco-Roman antiquity, and people like Plotinus influenced the philosophical background of Christianity, so the chances were fairly good that Christians would preserve at least some of his writings.  Lucretius expressed similar views to Democritus, and De rerum natura still survives because Christians chose to copy it... AnonMoos (talk) 11:06, 26 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Read for instance about how the Church banned the writings of epicureans like Lucretius. It is only by chance that a copy in a German monastery was rediscovered and copied rather than destroyed so we have it today. Yes we have a papal secretary to thank for that but most would have destroyed it out of hand. Dmcq (talk) 14:26, 26 January 2017 (UTC)

Use of genealogy books among persons of Korean descent in North America
Do persons of Korean descent living in the United States and Canada typically have lists of their descendants recorded in jokbo (genealogy books)? If so, does this practice vary depending on whether or not they have married other individuals of Korean descent?--129.97.124.217 (talk) 21:14, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Do you mean ancestors? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:55, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Either one, I guess. My intent in asking was to find out whether these books continue to be updated with information on the ancestors and descendants of individuals who immigrate to North America, or whether such individuals are left out of the genealogies.--2620:101:F000:702:E95A:4E1:A6A5:9CFA (talk) 22:29, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Specifically, if a Korean person were to immigrate to the United States, marry an American, and have children, would this information typically be recorded in a genealogy book? And would the situation be different if they married a fellow Korean immigrant, or a descendant of one?--129.97.125.27 (talk) 22:37, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Immigrate or emigrate? There could well be a difference between records kept in Korea of emigrants (it's an established practice, but do they care about those who leave?), and records kept in the US of immigrants from "the old country" (has the practice travelled?). Andy Dingley (talk) 02:56, 23 January 2017 (UTC)
 * An answer to either of those questions would be of interest.--129.97.124.217 (talk) 04:20, 23 January 2017 (UTC)