Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2017 June 28

= June 28 =

AFL-CIO
Does AFL-CIO get any government funding? Benjamin (talk) 00:49, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Not in any direct sense. Unions are funded by dues paid by their members; a number of government employees are AFL-CIO members and hence it could be said that there is "indirect" funding because money is directly deducted from federal employees' paychecks and sent to the union, but that could be said for literally anything whose employees have decided to join a union. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 00:52, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
 * What about this? http://washingtontimes.com/news/2015/sep/30/labor-unions-awarded-millions-from-federal-agencie/ Benjamin (talk) 01:00, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Those appear to be competitive grants for particular purposes such as job training which unions (among other organizations) have competed for and been awarded. Unions often operate apprenticeship and training programs in the trades, so it stands to reason that they could successfully apply for federal grants that support job training. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 01:04, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Would it be reasonable to say that they receive some public funding? Benjamin (talk) 01:06, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Depends on what you're writing. The AFL-CIO is not a single union, but an umbrella organization of unions, and it's unclear whether the AFL-CIO itself has received any public funding. You'd need to speak of a specific union receiving a particular grant — that grant doesn't go to the AFL-CIO, but to the Carpenters Union or SEIU or the IAM. It would also be reasonable to note that those public funds have been provided for specific public purposes, not simply as a general subsidy for the union's operations. It's pretty common nowadays for government agencies to provide grants to private organizations to carry out government work, rather than directly hiring government staff to do it. It's like the government and Lockheed-Martin; the United States Navy can't build its own F-35 fighter jets, so they contract with Lockheed-Martin to build them. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 01:12, 28 June 2017 (UTC)


 * Care for an AFL-CIO link anyone ? StuRat (talk) 03:40, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I had no idea what that was. That's a horrible acronym. Surely they must be able to come up with a better name and rebrand. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 09:20, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Compare SPEBSQSA. --Trovatore (talk) 20:19, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
 * The "A F of L" was formed in the 1880s. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 11:36, 28 June 2017 (UTC)


 * Dweller -- the AFL and CIO were originally distinct organizations with divergent philosophies. The groups that made up the AFL tended to represent highly skilled "aristocrats of labor", often without much interest in other workers who didn't possess that particular skill.  The CIO was based on an approach of recruiting all workers within a given industry (auto workers etc.).  The Wikipedia articles are craft unionism and industrial unionism... AnonMoos (talk) 14:31, 28 June 2017 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I wasn't aware that craft unionism required horrible acronyms, but I'll go edjumacate meself now. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 15:47, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Here's another: SEIU 32BJ. It's the largest property services workers union in the country (i.e. janitors, doormen etc.) and makes me wonder why they chose to end it with BJ. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 20:22, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
 * What's so horrible about it? It's only 6 letters. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 16:16, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
 * And 6 or 7 syllables, since the "of" continues to be pronounced at least sometimes! But there is a history of labor unions using long names.  Reading an old newspaper story from 1959 recently, I noticed that the labor union representing public transit workers here used to be called the "Amalgamated Association of Street Electric Railway and Motor Coach Operators of America". --76.71.5.114 (talk) 17:16, 28 June 2017 (UTC)


 * That's fewer than WWW. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:13, 29 June 2017 (UTC)


 * 76.71.5.114 -- The naming of unions is a whole sub-area of onomastics. In the 20th century, a lot of unions which had members in both Canada and the United States put "International" in their names (on the same principle as the baseball "World Series" [[Image:SFriendly.gif|20px]])... -- AnonMoos (talk) 20:12, 28 June 2017 (UTC)


 * Dweller, we do it over here too, see NASUWT. Rojomoke (talk) 17:14, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Heck yes. They need a rebrand too. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 07:59, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
 * This has been an issue for a while, e.g. NUSMWCH&D or ASBSBSW. Warofdreams talk 16:50, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Apparently the longest pronounceable acronym is MOTFOFATUSA (Member Of The Federation Of Free African Trade Unions Of South Africa)  Alansplodge (talk) 21:30, 28 June 2017 (UTC)


 * At the other extreme of the pronounceability spectrum is this fantastically stupid Russian acronym:
 * * NIIOMTPLABOPARMBETZHELBETRABSBOMONIMONKONOTDTEKHSTROMONT, which stands for: The laboratory for shuttering, reinforcement, concrete and ferroconcrete operations for composite-monolithic and monolithic constructions of the Department of the Technology of Building-assembly operations of the Scientific Research Institute of the Organization for building mechanization and technical aid of the Academy of Building and Architecture of the USSR . --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  08:22, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Indonesian institutions are supposedly also fond of long acronyms, though I don't have any examples to hand. AnonMoos (talk) 00:10, 30 June 2017 (UTC)
 * None in List of Indonesian acronyms and abbreviations seem particularly bad, the longest is Kelompencapir which is pronounacable Nil Einne (talk) 04:09, 30 June 2017 (UTC)
 * I seem to vaguely recall that 1970s editions of the Guinness Book of World Records listed a much longer example, but I'm unable find it through a little Googling now... AnonMoos (talk) 08:51, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

Voice of transgender woman
Are the voices of transgender women something that they train to do, is it something that you reach after an operation or is it caused by female hormones? Could they speak with a male voice of they wanted? Do they do it? For example when talking on the phone, to avoid any discrimination. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.7.125.186 (talk) 17:59, 28 June 2017 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia has an article on that: Voice therapy (transgender) — 2606:A000:4C0C:E200:90BF:36D1:C424:982A (talk) 18:56, 28 June 2017 (UTC)


 * The most relevant sentence from that article is: "While hormone replacement therapy and gender reassignment surgery can cause a more feminine outward appearance for male-to-female transgender individuals, they do little to alter the pitch of the voice or to make the voice sound more feminine". I'm sure such people are often working hard to do their best, but the result is sometimes a Dustin Hoffman "Tootsie"-ish type voice which is perhaps not all that convincing.  In past years, I picked out M-F transgender voices several times while listening to NPR, before being told the speakers were transgender. AnonMoos (talk) 20:06, 28 June 2017 (UTC)


 * See falsetto. StuRat (talk) 21:38, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
 * No, falsetto is quite different.
 * A falsetto has a different tone to it and lack of harmonics - except for some particularly skilled falsetto singers, who can sing in a falsetto that still sounds 'rich'. It's obviously a falsetto, no matter who is using it, and sounds primarily like a falsetto, rather than belonging to any particular gender. Even if the male falsetto matches the pitch of the normal female modal voice (it would be too high anyway), it sounds wrong.
 * The gender difference is a question of pitch, not tone, and comes from the size and tension of the vocal cords. Gender reassignment can change this, but not fully or easily: f-m transitions with testosterone beginning in teenage years can develop the adam's apple structure and give a male pitch. Some m-f transitions manage to learn a convincing higher pitch, without the Tootsie voice, but this is far from universally achieved. Andy Dingley (talk) 17:39, 29 June 2017 (UTC)