Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2017 May 27

= May 27 =

Does the Speaker have to resign their speakership before succeeding the presidency
Speaker of the United States House of Representatives is right after the VP in the presidential line of succession. But the Ineligibility Clause says that members of Congress aren't allowed to be simultaneously employed by the executive branch. So presumably the Speaker would have to resign first before succeeding the presidency (in case both POTUS and VP are gone). But once they resign, they are no longer Speaker and thus no longer in the presidential line of succession. Is it just me or is there a paradox here? Does the Speaker have to resign their speakership before succeeding the presidency? Scala Cats (talk) 01:41, 27 May 2017 (UTC)


 * This is covered in our article Presidential Succession Act, which gives us the text of the law:


 * "3 U.S.C. § 19 (a) (1). Vacancy in offices of both President and Vice President; officers eligible to act:


 * "If, by reason of death, resignation, removal from office, inability, or failure to qualify, there is neither a President nor Vice President to discharge the powers and duties of the office of President, then the Speaker of the House of Representatives shall, upon his resignation as Speaker and as Representative in Congress, act as President". (Emphasis added) --Guy Macon (talk) 02:01, 27 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Scala Cats (talk) 04:03, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

Niihau lakes
I need help finding reliable sources that support these (below) stating that Aylmer Robinson plowed the lakes (preferably one that mentions the exact lake(s)) during WWII to stop the Japanese from landing and this later caused the crash landing in the Niihau incident? Flickr is not a great source yet it seems the most detailed and most search I've done only turn up Pinterest entries.

red coordinations
I know about Go Red for Women Day, which was created by the American Heart Association. I also know about The Heart Truth, which was created by the National Heart, Lung and Blood Institute. But do both organizations coordinate on the same thing, or are they different from one another?2604:2000:7113:9D00:B81E:C008:E611:FADF (talk) 10:26, 27 May 2017 (UTC)


 * They are separate organizations, but there appears to be cooperation on various projects. I found:
 * "September 2001 — The NHLBI, along with the American Heart Association and other partners, launched a national Act in Time to Heart Attack Signs campaign to increase awareness of the symptoms of heart attack and the need for a fast response".
 * "November 12, 2013 — As part of a new collaborative partnership model to develop new cardiovascular disease clinical guidelines, NHLBI provided completed rigorous, evidentiary reviews to the American Heart Association, American College of Cardiology, and other professional societies. The new partnership model led to the rapid publication of four key guidelines for lifestyle, risk assessment, cholesterol, and overweight and obesity".  Alansplodge (talk) 13:07, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

Kitchen Cabinet (US)
Our article on kitchen cabinets refers primarily to Westminster style governments (UK and Oz). There is some reference to Andrew Jackson´s ginger group, but that is hardly current news.

So, does the US Constitution plus any amendments expressis verbis prevent the emergence of a small group of “trusted" presidential advisors to establish a secretive executive? Were it, in theory, possible to bypass the “checks and balances” established by those who doubted the benevolence and sanity of elected holders of the office?

Needless to say, such kitchen cabinets are the normal high-level decision makers in any private enterprise. An individual inexperienced with - or even hostile to - democratic processes and / or the media may see this as a legit (?) shortcut to achieve their goals. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 13:16, 27 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Article Two of the United States Constitution doesn't define what the "executive officers" will be and doesn't mention the word "cabinet". The Senate has to approve the executive officers, though. And certainly there's room for abuse of power, which is what happened with Nixon and his own "kitchen cabinet" - and that's why the House and Senate combined can boot him out of office if they think he's abused his powers. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 13:46, 27 May 2017 (UTC)
 * He did and they would have. Blooteuth (talk) 23:11, 27 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes. Nixon resigned just like a chess player resigns when he's going to be checkmated. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 09:52, 28 May 2017 (UTC)

Additional question: Has there, in US history, ever been a case where an elected president was “sidelined”, be it by the VP / the cabinet (or the House / Senate, even if those are not executive bodies) without a designated successor becoming acting president? Essentially, a “soft” putsch / coupe d´état. Meaning they (well, he until now) were reduced to be impotent “puppets” due to the distribution of actual powers in the executive / legislative chambers.

PS: Thank you, BB et al for the responses. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 13:30, 28 May 2017 (UTC)
 * The closest thing I can think of is when Woodrow Wilson fell ill late in his second term, and his wife and other close advisers kind of "propped him up" and no one was willing to exercise the rather vaguely worded constitutional provision about "incapacity". Something similar happened with FDR, except he had the good sense to die instead of lingering. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 16:45, 28 May 2017 (UTC)
 * (ec) Possibly Woodrow Wilson after his illness (see Edith_Wilson). Maybe Warren G. Harding also in declining health. Rmhermen (talk) 16:48, 28 May 2017 (UTC)
 * The Wilson situation is the reason for most of the Twenty-fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution; it deals with presidential succession and disability, but the succession (and VP-replacement) processes are rather simple, while the awkwardness of defining disability means that most of the amendment provides for different processes for determining disability. Under its provisions, the Vice President and the cabinet, acting together, can depose the president (not formally, but the VP becomes Acting President with all presidential powers), although the President has the right to resume his powers, and Congress gets to decide who wins if there's a dispute.  Note that the amendment is tilted against illegitimate depositions, because the president wins unless there's a two-thirds majority in favor of the VP/cabinet.  This section has never been invoked, although sponsor Birch Bayh noted that the section should have been used in the aftermath of the attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan in 1981.  Nyttend (talk) 22:40, 28 May 2017 (UTC)
 * How come it took 47 years after the Wilson administration to pass it? I recall when this thing was passed and it wasn't so much about Wilson as about the clear and present risk of having no Vice President. The process came in very handy post-Agnew. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:00, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

Grevinec
Does anyone know such a place in Russia. If yes, how is it pronounced? Thanks in advance. Omidinist (talk) 14:34, 27 May 2017 (UTC)


 * I'm pretty certain it was a fictional location invented by Guareschi in "Il compagno Don Camillo" ("Comrade Don Camillo"), but I couldn't find any reference for this, nor whether any pun is involved. ---Sluzzelin talk  15:41, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

Thanks. The novel is Italian, so the name must be pronounced like ... what? Omidinist (talk) 15:54, 27 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Like an Italian trying to sound like a Russian? Dmcq (talk) 16:11, 27 May 2017 (UTC)
 * If it matters, the Don Camillo stories have been translated into English and there are a few collections of them. They are very funny though I've forgotten or didn't see the one mentioning Grevinec. 173.228.123.121 (talk) 20:57, 27 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Indeed, Grevinec appears in that aforementioned book (translated by Frances Frenaye, published by Penguin in 1964, just a year after the Italian original came out). It's purportedly a village on the delegation's itinerary, the site of an exemplary kolkhos visited in the chapter "Christ's Secret Agent." Leaving Grevinec in the following chapter ("The Rains Came to Stay"), their bus heads for "the village of Tifiz... only two or three miles [sic] away...", likewise an apparently invented place name. As for pronunciation, what is the final "c" in the romanized "Grevinec" meant to represent from the "original" Russian? -- Deborahjay (talk) 20:26, 28 May 2017 (UTC)''


 * It looks more like a Polish or Czech ending, where -ec would be pronounced -ets. Grevinets looks more Russian than Grevinec;  if it is meant to be a hard c, it would more likely have been romanised as Grevinek, but that just looks vaguely Slavic, not specifically Russian.  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  22:17, 28 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Many thanks for all your helpful comments. Omidinist (talk) 02:46, 29 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Deborahjay -- usual spelling is Kolkhoz in English... AnonMoos (talk) 09:25, 29 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Agreed, whether a transliteration or transcription from the Russian колхо́з. I was merely being faithful to the Penguin paperback edition at hand. A simple [sic] on my part would've indicated the variance was deliberate here. I was more surprised at the use of "miles" to express distance; I would suppose the original Italian would have been in kilometers? -- Deborahjay (talk) 14:41, 30 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Yep, in the original the distance is given as "cinque chilometri". How dare the translator not write "Tifiz... only 3.107 miles away"! ---Sluzzelin talk  01:22, 31 May 2017 (UTC)