Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2017 November 20

= November 20 =

Al wadi desert shapes
Good afternoon everyone, I am failing to find if we have an article about | these shapes on the ground in the desert in Saudi Arabia? Many thanks --Lgriot (talk) 17:44, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
 * In that article, in the second paragraph, it calls them Works of the Old Men. That is a valid redirect to Desert kite, though that article looks to only deal with some of the Arabian structures, but maybe not all of them.  Maybe our article needs to be expanded and/or split.  -- Jayron 32 17:50, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you Jayron!

Amalia Lindegren paintings
Are any works of art by Amalia Lindegren held in public collections outside Sweden? Carbon Caryatid (talk) 20:22, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
 * This is not necessarily comprehensive, but does not list any publicly displayed works outside of Sweden. -- Jayron 32 16:36, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

Trying to Find a Specific Book on a Post-Work Society
I'm trying to find a well-known (in the United States, at least) book that theorized what workers would do with their time after the need for productive work greatly diminishes. The book would have been written several decades ago, long before today's headlines of "robots will take all our jobs!": I want to say it was published in the 1950s, but I'm not sure. It's not "Theory of the Leisure Class", although I think the author argues that productivity will soon reach a point where leisure could realistically supplant work as the way people spend their time. I believe the book examined the implications of this for society: that is, if most people don't go to work everyday, how would this affect existing arrangements? I've tried Googling variations of "The Leisure Society", but without luck. Thanks! OldTimeNESter (talk) 21:01, 20 November 2017 (UTC)


 * 'The Future of Work and Leisure' or 'The sociology of leisure' by Stanley Parker? It's actually of the 70s? --B8-tome (talk) 11:02, 21 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Does the article Post-scarcity economy lead you anywhere useful? -- Jayron 32 12:18, 21 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Possibly connected with the Technocracy movement? -- AnonMoos (talk) 12:58, 21 November 2017 (UTC)


 * John Maynard Keynes wrote an essay on the topic in 1930. Although the most influential economist of the 20th century, I'm not sure I'd call him or his works "well-known" among the general public, but noted here just in case I hit the bullseye. --47.157.122.192 (talk) 22:18, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

you might also want to check out Kurt Vonnegut's fictional treatment of the subject, the novel, Player Piano. μηδείς (talk) 21:04, 25 November 2017 (UTC)

Economic end times
I understand that the rich are getting richer exponentially like the end of a Monopoly game.

I've read that, if unchecked, the people will no longer be able to buy and sell, like the end of Monopoly.

Is there chart showing this with some sort of projection indicating when things cannot go further?

Anna Frodesiak (talk) 21:38, 20 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Predictions of the eminent demise of capitalism have been going on for over a century. Nothing lasts forever and no doubt one day a prediction will prove to be correct.  Searches on "demise of capitalism" and "decline of capitalism" will provide plenty of reading on the general subject, if not this specific scenario.--Wikimedes (talk) 09:36, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
 * It is not the first time one small group claimed the whole cake for themselves and only left the crumbs for the majority. Go read history to learn about how that worked out usually.
 * You can not make a projection because people find a way of living under the harshest circumstances. The Crisis, Change or Revolution that changes the current or future wealth allocation may come tomorrow, in 100 years or never. Steve Keen and Nouriel Roubini became famous for predicting (aka projecting) the Financial crisis of 2007–2008 but when they spoke out almost everyone with a high scientific renome declared them to be "nuts" an their "projection" to be irrelevant. If that famous bank had not collapsed, they where probably still regarded "nuts" today. Maybe go check what Steve Keen and Nouriel Roubini "project" today. Maybe they are right again, maybe not. --Kharon (talk) 10:56, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the feedback. Keen thinks China's private debt will lead to a problem. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 21:45, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Wikimedes, thank you. I will search those terms. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 21:45, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

Unpack "the people will no longer be able to buy and sell". If you're talking about property, maybe. If you're talking about cabbages, it doesn't make sense. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 11:20, 21 November 2017 (UTC)


 * The inequality is very worrying and is getting towards levels where violent things have happened in the past. See for instance. Yes rich people are aware of the problem but it simply makes them become even more distant and protective of their wealth. For every Bill Gates trying to counter disease there is a crowd denying climate change to try and trying to make more money out of oil. Organisation s like Facebook and Twitter don't exactly help either - encouraging groups to hate each other is what their AI algorithms will do automatically even without people like Trump or Putin because that gets more usage. Dmcq (talk) 11:39, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Dweller, I mean like won't the rich eventually get all the money so people will not be able to buy cabbages or property. I mean, if we're on a dessert island with ten people and one person gets all the money, how do the others trade cabbages? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 21:45, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Presumably you mean "desert"? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 23:25, 26 November 2017 (UTC)
 * The one person loans the others money, and makes sure they stay in debt forever. See debt servitude. Someguy1221 (talk) 01:55, 22 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Someguy1221, hi. Great. So people will borrow money for cabbages. But even that must end, no? The rich suck the money out of the system till they have it all, no? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 07:31, 22 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Once you have all the money you start collecting slaves. Someguy1221 (talk) 09:11, 22 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Most countries use some form of fiat money, which can theoretically be created ad infinitum, so literally "running out of money" shouldn't be a realistic threat. (The rich aren't hoarding banknotes in a vault - they're hoarding electrons in a database).  The problem wouldn't be  that they have all the money and therefore no one else can trade, the problem would be that they have so much more money that they can outbid everyone and, and buy all the cabbages leaving not enough to go around. Iapetus (talk) 11:44, 22 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you, Iapetus. That makes a lot of good sense. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 22:06, 25 November 2017 (UTC)

Anna_Frodesiak -- historically when there have been extreme wealth differences between a small upper group and a fairly uniformly-impoverished numerous lower group, the result has been a contrast of large agricultural landowners vs. peasants or serfs, as developed in areas of Europe during the decline of the Western Roman empire, in parts of Latin America, and during the 17th and 18th centuries in Russia, etc. People have speculated that the result in a modern context would be some form of "technofeudalism". Wikipedia doesn't seem to have an article on technofeudalism, but does have one on the related concept of Neo-feudalism... AnonMoos (talk) 13:08, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you, AnonMoos. I'm going to read what I can find about that. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 21:45, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

For an alternative view to the basic premisis -- that the world economy is not the best ever seen in human history -- see poverty reduction, and particularly the parts about the greatest-in-history improvement in the human condition. DOR (HK) (talk) 22:56, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

I'm still confused about how 10 people could fit on a Dessert island? Probably a better question for the Science desk, but how much meringue is needed to support 10 average people above a Sea of Crème anglaise? 75.175.118.132 (talk) 02:28, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
 * It's related to the question of how many angels can dance on the head of a bowling pin. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 09:48, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Does that differ from the number of Anglos having fits on Bowling Green? ¡Buen Día de pavo!

Thank you all for the very good feedback. I think I understand things better now. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 22:06, 25 November 2017 (UTC)