Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2017 November 7

= November 7 =

Khrushchev's shoe
Per shoe-banging incident, no video records had been found, but this has been around for some time. Is it genuine? Specifically, if you stop at around 0:20, the object is identifiable as a shoe. Brandmeistertalk  04:55, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
 * This report from 2003 is unsure, conflicting reports from eyewitnesses exist. This book here has an entire chapter devoted to the controversy, even discussing the possible existence of a film which itself may or may not be evidence.  It's an interesting perspective.  -- Jayron 32 11:59, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I've stopped, and re-played and nudged and played, numerous times. But that object is wholly unindentifiable as a shoe to me. Surely it would have had to have been his own shoe? To me the object looks white. Was he partial to slingbacks, perhaps? Martinevans123 (talk) 13:44, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm not so sure it's even Krushchev. As for the shoe incident, editorial cartoonists subsequently often depicted him holding one of his own shoes in his hand. I recall seeing video of Krushchev and his buddies banging on their desks with closed fists, like rebellious schoolchildren, in an attempt to drown out whoever was talking. That stuff came some time after the shoe incident. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 13:51, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Good point. When and how does that earpiece miraculously appear? Martinevans123 (talk) 14:01, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Not miraculously, seems to be a translation earpiece. The guy may not be identical to Khrushchev, but this could be due to poor video quality, as the letters on the table plaque are illegible to me (otherwise they could have been a clue). Brandmeistertalk  14:55, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I mean it's not there before the shoe action begins? It looks like (at least) two separate shots have been spliced together. I also see that there are other delegates behind him who are laughing? Martinevans123 (talk) 16:37, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
 * There's no question that it's two different items interwoven. One is definitely Krushchev, giving a speech and then walking away from the podium. The other is a clip of someone who kind of resembles Krushchev, banging something on his desk, too grainy to make out what it is. It could just as easily be rolled up papers as it could be a shoe. And his suit is different between the two clips. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 19:03, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I agree. And while we're at it I'm sure Imelda Marcos has been very hard done by, too. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:12, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Right! So, checking newspapers.com (a pay site, and not comprehensive) all the initial reports agree that he took off his shoe and waved it around "as if" he were going to bang it on the desk, and only some claimed that he actually hit his desk with it. In that supposed shoe-banging clip, the guy to the right of him should be Gromkyo (according to the pictures at the time) but that doesn't look much like Gromyko. So I'm inclined to believe it's a re-enactment by actors. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 19:29, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I still agree with you. And here's Andy, in case you forgot how he looked. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:44, 7 November 2017 (UTC)


 * In 1960 I saw TV news coverage on NBC which clearly showed him pounding on a desk at the UN when he disliked someone’s speech. My wife confirmed she saw it as well at the time on CBS. If it did not happen, who orchestrated the campaign to convince the American people they had seen news film of it, and what date was the false memory introduced?Edison (talk) 19:28, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Liz would be proud of you. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:46, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
 * The news clip I recall was him pounding on his desk with his fists, alternating from one to the other. The contemporary accounts that I've just read say that the shoe was instead of his "usual" approach of pounding his fists. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 19:31, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Within the first 40 seconds of this clip you can see Krushchev and at least one other of his minions pounding on their desks with one or both fists, just the way I had recalled it. I haven't watched the whole thing, so I don't know if it addresses the shoe incident or not. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 19:43, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I watched it through - it mentions the shoe, and shoe a picture of Khruschev with a shoe on the desk in front of him - but not of him actually banging it. However, there is film of him banging the show here - it looks as if he used his fists while seated during Macmillan's speech, and the show during his own speech. Wymspen (talk) 18:24, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
 * You've linked to a "video" by someone called Marshall Poe, that is a monologue narration over a single still photo that has been shown to be a fake? Martinevans123 (talk) 18:31, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Famous situations and quotes are often twisted to fit expectations. How often have you heard, "Houston, we have a problem" when it was actually, "Houston, we've had a problem."? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 19:53, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, it seems it has assumed some kind of incorrect precedence. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:55, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
 * As with "Play it again, Sam." ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 19:59, 7 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Well that's odd. I well remember TV coverage of this incident from the time. The camera was situated on the opposite side to the one in the clip posted by the OP and Khruschev was at a single podium instead of surrounded by seats. Oh well. --TammyMoet (talk) 17:03, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
 * You may be remembering the "We will bury you" speech, which was delivered by Kruschev at a podium, rather than at a UN desk. See this video, about 1:50 onwards.  -- Jayron 32 17:09, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
 * "We will bury you in Adidas boots"? I mean, it's on the RT channel, so it must be true, right? Martinevans123 (talk) 21:41, 9 November 2017 (UTC)