Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2018 August 27

= August 27 =

Weimar republic post-inflationary wages, in currency
Does anyone have a source for the wages in the Weimar Republic after the inflationary crisis? I'm interested in 1929-1933. I've found sources giving them in percentage of adjusted 1918 wages and so on, but I just wanted an idea of what people earned in marks (currency), for context on how expensive quoted prices were. I realize that people earned widely varying amounts; I'm mostly interested in the less-well-off and the unemployed. Apologies is this is obvious and I've somehow missed it. HLHJ (talk) 02:44, 27 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I found this about a general development of actual wages from 1929 onwards, although without any numbers in currency given. The german Wikipedia also has an article on average yearly wages and gives a number of 2.110 Reichsmark in 1929 for example. 85.16.162.137 (talk) 06:03, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

Thank you very much! That context improved the article no end. HLHJ (talk) 05:33, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

young aristocrat carrying a cane?
In HPMOR (a Harry Potter fanfic novel), Lucius Malfoy is a powerful political figure who carries a cane with a silver snake (as in Slytherin) handle. That detail didn't seem too odd for a middle-aged British aristocrat-type despite his having no pronounced physical infirmities. Much is also made of his son Draco being the future Lord Malfoy. Later in the novel (spoiler), Lucius gets killed. In the sequel "Significant Digits", Draco Malfoy is now Lord Malfoy and is in his twenties, and carries Lucius's old cane.

Question: is that detail realistic at all, someone in their 20s and in good shape, carrying a fancy cane without looking like a complete git? I mean by comparison to other aristocrats in such a milieu. Presumably to regular people they all look like gits whatever they do. Thanks.

173.228.123.166 (talk) 20:25, 27 August 2018 (UTC)
 * They were considered a "fashion accessory", rather than a walking stick -- sort of a vestigial sceptre. In fiction, they often signify power and prestige; in those days, they didn't consider somebody with a cane a "cripple" or a "git".  Didn't John Steed typically have a cane? 107.15.157.44 (talk) 22:27, 27 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks! That's about what I was asking.  That link is excellent.  I don't remember John Steed having a cane but ok, at least he was old enough that maybe he'd have wanted to lean on it once in a while even if he could walk without it.  It just seemed incongruous for a 20-something athlete (Quiddich) to carry one.  But in a formal setting I guess it can work. 173.228.123.166 (talk) 22:57, 27 August 2018 (UTC)
 * In addition to Steed, some of us older folk on the left side of the pond recall TV's Bat Masterson. Deor (talk) 14:57, 28 August 2018 (UTC)


 * Also look at swagger stick, for the military equivalent. Baritsu / Bartitsu wouldn't hurt either. Andy Dingley (talk) 23:01, 27 August 2018 (UTC)
 * P.s.: Steed's cane concealed a sword, ("saber" as he called it) -- as with his "brolly". —107.15.157.44 (talk) 23:13, 27 August 2018 (UTC)
 * P.P.S. In 1961 (the debut of The Avengers) Patrick McNee was 39 years old, and presumably was playing John Steed as close to that age. The cane was hardly a necessity. - Nunh-huh 14:27, 28 August 2018 (UTC)


 * Google-Image "astaire puttin on the ritz" for a number of visuals. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 02:08, 28 August 2018 (UTC)


 * I remember reading two news articles about Benjamin Disraeli giving a speech in parliament. One praised his statesmanlike speech on the Corn laws. The other was utterly outraged by him carrying the wrong sort of cane. And yellow gloves. And his waistcoat was loud or something and I forget what else. The speech hardly got a look-in. Aristocrats of the time lived in a society which had long had a reliable 10% return on investment, so associating yourself with the right people and not offending their tastes became very important. Those less dependent on the goodwill of others are freer to do as they please, which may mean dressing like Cédric Villani, or acting like a git. HLHJ (talk) 05:33, 28 August 2018 (UTC)


 * There are numerous photographs of a young Winston Churchill pre WWI (probably aged in his late 20s or 30s) on his way to (or from) Parliament... he is dressed appropriately for the era (cut-a-way coat, top hat... and jauntily carrying a cane as a fashion accessory. It was a common accessory with upper class formal wear in the late Victorian and Edwardian era. Blueboar (talk) 15:12, 28 August 2018 (UTC)


 * I just looked up "git"; I always thought it meant "an obnoxious and overtly rude person", but Wiktionary disagrees and gives an unfortunate etymology, so apologies.
 * 173.228.123.166, I do not believe that there exists a modern social milieu where one can carry such a cane in everyday life without being regarded as a bit old-fashioned and eccentric, even in the UK. There are also strict legal limits on carrying weapons. After Terry Pratchett was knighted, he was still not allowed to wear a sword, to his amusement and disappointment. HLHJ (talk) 00:59, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
 * That usage of "git" comes up in the Monty Python "argument sketch". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:06, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
 * , I would certainly think that popular hiking trails in rugged mountainous terrain worldwide qualify as a "social milieu". The use of Walking sticks is common on such trails, and countless people use them frequently. I have owned and used several for decades. Cullen328  Let's discuss it  06:07, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
 * , thanks! I think the setting in the Potter novels is intentionally anachronistic, so the customs would be more like Victorian than modern England.  The wizarding world has't had to pursue much modernization or technology because they can do stuff by magic instead.  HPMOR probably develops this idea more than the Rowling novels did.  Anyway it sounds like the cane fits in better because of that.  173.228.123.166 (talk) 07:36, 1 September 2018 (UTC)

I can't believe no-one has mentioned Chris Eubank yet. He commonly carries a cane. Unlike the Malfoys, Eubank is subject to WP:BLP including on project pages, so careful what you say disparagingly about this quote from RS "The former world boxing champion is fine, and as ever dandy, in camel hair frock coat, sharply pointed designer boots and jeans that bear a striking resemblance to the jodhpurs that once accompanied his trademark monocle, cane and lisp." --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 10:14, 29 August 2018 (UTC)


 * Thanks, I hadn't heard of him. I didn't find any pictures of the whole getup, but found a nice one with the monocle.  I liked some of the stories in his biography too, though others of them are not so cheerful.  173.228.123.166 (talk) 08:36, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Here are some photos: --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 09:35, 3 September 2018 (UTC)