Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2018 August 31

= August 31 =

Kitchener - "he is not a great man, he is a great poster"
Margot Asquith is quoted in our article Lord Kitchener Wants You as saying "He is not a great man, he is a great poster", and is in the Oxford Dictionary of Quotations as saying "Kitchener is a great poster". ODQ cites her More Memories, 1933. Our article cites Brushes and Bayonets: Cartoons, Sketches and Paintings of World War I by Lucinda Gosling. Do we have an earlier citation for her using this (or a form of this) saying? I ask because in researching K's salaries, I came across a comment in Hansard by Arthur Markham in May 1916 where he says "Lord Kitchener, we all know, is a great poster, and has been very successful as a poster, but what happened with regard to recruiting?" DuncanHill (talk) 11:45, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Excellent! According to Nigel Rees's Cassell Companion to Quotations Margot Asquith, in her More Memories, actually attributes the remark to her daughter Elizabeth.  In 1924 Christopher Addison wrote that "someone" had once told Lloyd George that "Lord Kitchener might or might not be a great General, but he was certainly a great Poster."  But I think you've practically got back to the horse's mouth. --Antiquary (talk) 16:53, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * That reminds me that Lloyd George did quote it in his War Memoirs - he ascribes "Not a great man, but a great poster" to a "lady with a pernicious gift for stinging epigrams", which would be as good a description of Margot as any other. So - everyone thinks Margot said it, Margot says her daughter said it, but Markham seems to have got there first. DuncanHill (talk) 17:15, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Quite possibly, though I am worried by that "we all know". Does that suggest that it was a joke already doing the rounds? --Antiquary (talk) 18:58, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, that struck me too. Margot seems to say that her husband quoted Elizabeth when she (Margot) warned him of K's possible unsuitability for the role of War Secretary, but as his appointment preceded the poster this seems unlikely. I did go back to search Hansard for earlier uses, and there do not appear to be any. Addison's book came out in 1924, LlG's War Memoirs between 1933 and 1936 (the character sketch of K is in an early section), and Lady Asquith's More Memories in 1933. It would be out of character for Margot to deny originating a line like that if it really was her own. I don't think it beyond her to claim it as her daughter's even if it was a common quip at the time. Anyone got the ability to search old numbers of Punch or John Bull and the like? DuncanHill (talk) 19:28, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * How could he be a great poster, the Internet wasn't even invented yet Asmrulz (talk) 22:25, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

Publicly announcing deaths several days after the death occurs in East Asia
In Japan, it appears to be the common place, if not the norm for deaths of public figures (at least in entertainment) to be announced several days after the death occurred, usually after wakes and funerals have already taken place. There are exceptions to this in Japan (some deaths are announced immediately), but these are exceptions. I was wondering: is this also the case in China and Korea? And what are the reasons for this kind of practice in Japan then? Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 13:38, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

Is this valid method of procurement in any government agency in utility sector
Under Indian law, is it allowable for a department (or department head) to bypass the a formal open "request for tender" process, by instead calling limited tender among arbitrary selected vendors. Specifically, does this (or is this likely to) violate vigilance rules of central vigilance commission or state vigilance commission, for a state-owned company for generating thermal power?

The company has a official public notice published in its website stating that material and services will be procured through e-tender and interested parties must acquire Digital Signature Certificates from authorized agencies for participating in the e-tendering process and in the said notice there is no mention of value range or type of items or services for which e-tendering is exempted and other methods are to be followed.It is also mentioned in the notice that for any unforeseen eventualities interested parties may follow notice in organization website

However, in one of this company's power plants,information technology related goods, services and works procurement is not handled through the open e-tendering process, but instead tender is only available to vendors arbitrarily selected by an official.

Is the "limited tendering" policy described above valid? If not, is it a form of corruption? Could this be evidence of a kickback scheme or other systematic corruption?Wrogh456 (talk) 15:27, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Your apparent IP 103.24.110.233 geolocates to India. No one here is qualified to answer the legal questions you're raising. If you're concerned, you should consult an attorney there in India. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 15:45, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * This is nothing to do with legal advice. This is a request for information concerning rules for government procurement.  E-tendering is normally only for high value contracts, i.e. those above a certain financial limit.  You say that there are no value ranges specified, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.  It would be silly for a government agency to require e-tendering for paperclips or pencils, for example. You can ask the agency for their detailed procurement rules, but they might not give them to you.  You could also write to the agency's auditors and see if they're interested. --Viennese Waltz 16:08, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Asking whether something is illegal is a request for legal advice. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 18:20, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Not at all. He's not proposing to do it himself, therefore it's not a request for advice. --Viennese Waltz 20:36, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * He's making an accusation of illegal activity. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 22:17, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * No he's not. He's asking whether existing rules mean that particular activity, carried out by a company he carefully hasn't identified and cannot therefore be accusing, is legal or not.
 * I agree that no-one on this Desk is likely to be able to answer the question. Given its nature, I doubt (though IANAL) that an attorney would be a suitable authority to consult, since this is not a matter of a personal tort. More likely there will be an appropriate Ombudsman or, this being India, a Lokpal or a Lokayukta, to which the question should be addressed and who would be responsible for investigating such matters. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.212.15.178 (talk) 08:23, 1 September 2018 (UTC)

"It would be silly for a government agency to require e-tendering for paperclips or pencils, for example. " I work for a community college in North Carolina and we DO use e-tendering to purchase such things.--Khajidha (talk) 17:23, 1 September 2018 (UTC)

Pisan title to Sardinia
Did the doges of the Republic of Pisa ever adopt a title in reference to Sardinia, which they ruled for some time? For example, the doges of Venice called themselves dukes of Dalmatia. And did the Genoese use a title in reference to Corsica? Surtsicna (talk) 18:59, 31 August 2018 (UTC)


 * Apparently no - Sardinia was never ruled as a single territory and the Pisans don't seem to have considered an integral part of the Republic. It was already split between the four giudici and the Pisans just installed their own citizens in those positions, rather than creating a new title/office. Eventually the giudicates were conquered by (or sold to) the Aragonese who established the Kingdom of Sardinia as an integral part of the Crown of Aragon. Adam Bishop (talk) 00:19, 1 September 2018 (UTC)

Greek Orthodoxy on Sardinia
When did Sardinia become Roman Catholic? And when did its native rulers, the judges, become Roman Catholic? The New Cambridge Medieval History says that Pope Gregory VII (r. 1073–85) "was anxious to bring the island into line with the institutions and customs of western Christianity, challenging the strong local tradition of Greek Orthodoxy". It seems it was not yet Catholic during the pontificate of Gregory VII, despite having become independent from the Byzantine Empire 200 years earlier. Surtsicna (talk) 19:23, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, I don't know the answer to this question. That said, though, you can try getting the answer to this question at historum.com if you won't be able to get an answer here. This also applies to your other question here. Futurist110 (talk) 22:31, 31 August 2018 (UTC)


 * The Byzantines were probably already gone by the time the Arabs started raiding the island in the 8th century, so the local tradition of Orthodoxy was probably not that strong. Like you said, there's about 200-300 years where apparently there just wasn't really much of a church on Sardinia. After the schism in 1054, there definitely couldn't be any further Byzantine influence, if there had been any before that. As you mentioned, it was brought into line with western Christian customs under Gregory VII, who sent papal legates, sent the Benedictines and other monastic orders to found monasteries, built new churches, etc. I wouldn't really say it "became" Roman Catholic or converted though, since there's not much practical difference between Orthodoxy and Catholicism in the 11th century. From Gregory's point of view, they were just restoring/reaffirming Christianity, not converting the Sardinians from one religion to another. A helpful starting place for all this is Michelle Hobart, "Merchants, monks, and medieval Sardinian architecture", chapter 4 of Studies in the Archaeology of the Medieval Mediterranean (p. 109-112 specifically). Adam Bishop (talk) 00:38, 1 September 2018 (UTC)

Mark Levin and Alex Jones
Do Mark Levin and Alex Jones say nice things about each other? Are they friends? ThanksRich (talk) 23:44, 31 August 2018 (UTC)