Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2018 December 15

= December 15 =

Horizontal swastika symbol of nazis?
Got into an interesting discussion with someone who only considers the 45 degree angle swastika (point up like the Nazi flag) to be a symbol of the third reich. I always though orientation didn't matter. The page about swastika is unclear to me. (The person that I am discussing this with is a lapsed Jain.)Naraht (talk) 13:39, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
 * While the 45-degrees version was certainly the more common, Nazis did also use other variants, including official instances such as File:Standarte Adolf Hitlers.svg or File:Reichsdienstflagge 1935.svg. Fut.Perf. ☼ 13:49, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Oddly enough, both of these examples also have a 45 degrees orientation version within the image. But at least this gives me examples that aren't just someone vandalizing a synagogue. I'm completely convinced that this person's use of the Swastika is *not* anti-semetic, most of them are similar to what is on the Jain Symbols page with either have three dots above or the hand below or both.Naraht (talk) 15:01, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
 * "Oddly enough, both of these examples also have a 45 degrees orientation version within the image." Only the second one contains a 45 degrees orientation. Bus stop (talk) 19:58, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
 * That threw me at first too. In the first one, the birds are at 45 degree angles, hence their 45 degree swastikas look square. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:55, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
 * A swastika can be oriented to the diagonal, and a swastika can be oriented to the vertical/horizontal. In the second image both of those orientations are found. In the first image only one of those orientations is found. Bus stop (talk) 23:15, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
 * The birds are on diagonal swastikas. But since the birds themselves are on diagonals, the swastikas look square. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:15, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Maybe it's just me but I totally disregard the birds when discussing the overall image. It contains 5 swastikas all of which are oriented to the horizontal/vertical. None of the 5 swastikas contained in this image are oriented to the diagonal. The birds can do their thing but in my opinion the orientation of the birds to the swastikas is an artistic stylization as opposed to an objective reality. Bus stop (talk) 01:49, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
 * A Nazi artist getting cute with his design. There's an oxymoron! ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 02:17, 16 December 2018 (UTC)


 * Why'd the Nazis make their flag diagonal? Did they think it looked cooler that way? Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 17:39, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure if this is a reliable source (it has a conspiratorial air about it) but Police State USA: The Pledge of Allegiance Was the Origin of Hitler Salutes & Nazi Behavior (p. 110) by Ian Tinny, suggests that the diagonal cross represents a letter "S" for "Socialism". I haven't found a better source for that though.  Alansplodge (talk) 17:58, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
 * That's pretty certainly not a reliable source; it's some right-wing loon's self-published, raving fringe bullshit. Fut.Perf. ☼ 19:31, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Hitler was about three years old when the Pledge of Allegiance was written. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 19:39, 15 December 2018 (UTC)

Unfortunately the Nazis ruined an otherwise-beautiful, millenia-old symbol forever. Unicode U+5350 CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-5350 (卐)'s official description is "Definition in English: swastika, one of the auspicious signs recognized (e.g. in Chinese Tathagata Buddhism) as being on the chest of Buddha (and variously seen in statuary on the chest, soles of the feet, or palms of the hands)". If only. 173.228.123.166 (talk) 20:10, 15 December 2018 (UTC)

Provinces of Japan
Apparently some of the traditional provinces of Japan were classified as superior countries (上国). Where can I find a complete list of them? --79.32.130.1 (talk) 16:28, 15 December 2018 (UTC)


 * The Japanese version of that article includes a chart in this section that has that term as the header for the second row. I don't read Japanese, but the Google Translation makes it seem like this row includes a list of the superior countries.  The translation isn't really good enough for me to be certain though. -Elmer Clark (talk) 07:22, 18 December 2018 (UTC)