Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2018 February 21

= February 21 =

Why are the North African nations even in the African Union?
Culturally and historically, it looks like they adhere more to the Pan-Arabism thing than to the Pan-Africanism thing. If they identify with Sub-Saharan nations more than their fellow Arabs nations in Western Asia do, that's probably only slightly so. So why are they there? --Qnowledge (talk) 00:30, 21 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Just a couple of thinking points:
 * The late Muammar Gaddafi was a strong defender of uniting Africa, but not orienting his country toward other Arab countries.
 * Morocco was not a member until last year.
 * They have common problems with the Sub-Saharan countries like terrorism, immigration, instable governments. It's reasonable to deal with them together.
 * Many of them, Arab and non-Arab nations, are ex-colonies. --Hofhof (talk) 01:29, 21 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Qnowledge -- Some Africans were probably wondering the same thing in the 1970s, when the Organisation of African Unity (as it was then called) seemed to be a lot more consumed by Arab-motivated politics than delivering any concrete practical benefits to its member nations (the absolute low point was of course the 1976 Entebbe raid). However, it would be extremely difficult to draw any geographical line cleanly separating Arabs from "Africans" (impossible if Berbers are included among "Africans" and/or if the line must follow national boundaries only), and the (O)AU seems to have preferred not to try... AnonMoos (talk) 01:46, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

"Morocco was not a member until last year." That was due to a territorial dispute, over the Political status of Western Sahara. Morocco has formally annexed Western Sahara (though it does not actually control the entire area), but the African Union and most of its member states have refused to recognize or support its claim. Instead the Union accepted Morocco's opponent, the Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic, as a full member in 1982. In 1984, Morocco withdrew from the Union in protest. For a few decades (1994-2017) it was the only African state that was not a Union member. The political isolation seemingly cost more to Morocco than it cost the Union. Dimadick (talk) 16:45, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
 * The OAU seems to nominate African candidates for Secretary General of the UN, when it's that continent's "turn" to have a SG, and Boutros Boutros-Ghali of Egypt was among the OAU's nominees in 1991. See here. So they may consider it worth it to be in the running for that and for Security Council seats.--Wehwalt (talk) 17:15, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

Etiquette: why shouldn't you tip the owner?
It seems to be a rule that you should tip employees in, but not the owner of, a bar. Why? And does it still work like that? Wild guess: maybe the owner used to be a "peer" to the guest, who should be imbursed for his costs but not for being friendly? Joepnl (talk) 00:49, 21 February 2018 (UTC)


 * If the tip is for services rendered, then it makes sense that the tip is made to the server (who is the one who deals directly with the customer, in any case). Also, in the United States in some cases, tipped employees can be paid less than minimum wage, so that expected tips are pretty much part of their base wage.  For the boss to appropriate tips can be against the law, in such a situation. AnonMoos (talk) 01:24, 21 February 2018 (UTC)


 * If the worker is not getting decent wages, it's the owner's fault. If the owner is not getting decent wages, it's the owner's fault. Ian.thomson (talk) 01:28, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Well put. Tipping the owner would be absurd. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:55, 21 February 2018 (UTC)


 * One tips the owner by asking him to the table for a drink, although this is usually in reverse; an owner who knows his good customers personally will often send them drinks or a bottle compliments of the house. μηδείς (talk) 03:31, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
 * If there's a tip jar, put something in it even if the owner serves you; the contents are shared among the staff. --jpgordon&#x1d122;&#x1d106; &#x1D110;&#x1d107; 04:57, 21 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Tipping bar employees is only a 'rule' in some countries to start with. In many countries staff is actually already paid a living wage. 86.28.195.109 (talk) 08:16, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
 * If you're worrying at that level, you're overthinking it. In the U.S., you get the tab, add 15-20%, and pay that.  If the owner is also the bartender or waiter who served your drinks (possible), it doesn't matter much from you're point of view as a customer; you don't really involve yourself with dispersement of funds, you just add the 15-20% and say "thank you".  I go to a barber shop where there are 4 barbers; the one who owns the shop and three others who rent chairs from him.  I usually get my hair cut by the owner.  I still tip him, because it's customary to tip your barber.  I know he's the owner because I've known him for almost 20 years; but most customers wouldn't know and it doesn't really matter.  You just do it.  -- Jayron 32 12:00, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
 * In Japan for example "no tipping" is even general consensus in any situation. There is a good chance its refused by waiters, waitresses or barman etc. when you try to tip them as foreigner. --Kharon (talk) 12:03, 21 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Apart from what Medeis stated above, you "tip" the owner by your continued patronage to the establishment in the future. If you had a bad experience at a restaurant, you would likely not return there.--WaltCip (talk) 12:45, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I guess, but the point is the level of thinking is just not there when you pay a tab. You don't carefully ask "So, who is getting this money" and then distribute funds to those people directly as you see fit.  You get a tab, you look at the number, you add the tip in your head, and you leave that much money.  I've never been to a restaurant or bar situation where it was ever more complicated than that.  -- Jayron 32 13:34, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Tips are for laborers. The owner makes her money from the enterprise as a whole, and chooses how much to pay herself. The tip is for saying "Thanks for smiling and making small talk, sorry you're under the thumb of capitalism and all that." 2601:1C1:8100:900:8CA:15B1:ADFB:DF14 (talk) 17:44, 24 February 2018 (UTC)


 * I wonder if this is US-centric. In the UK tipping is for very good service, going the extra mile, rather than expected. I would tip an owner as well an employee if they did this. -- Q Chris (talk) 14:01, 26 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Good waitresses in nice restaurants can easily pull in $600 cash a night, $1,000 a week. Tax free, cash in hand.  And I am talking about waitresses in diners and Denny's.  This nonsense about we Europeans pay our staff a working wage bee ess is just that.  I have eaten in European restaurants, and the service was perfunctory.  How many Europeans actually aspire to that job?  The statistics about Americans also being the most charitable people in the world seem to fit in with a spirit of generosity on one hand versus duty.  I once served a table of 13 foreigners who took up 2/3 of my tables for the entire shift.  I got less than $5 in change.  They obviously knew about tipping or they would not have littered the table with nickels, but I guess they figured since I wasn't a geisha sitting on their laps I hadn't earned their respect.  When in Rome, do as the Romans. μηδείς (talk) 04:42, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

Marcus H. MacWillie
Marcus H. MacWillie represented the Arizona Territory in the Confederate Congress. I had no idea that the territory sent a representative to Richmond, and I'm not sure where to look; Confederate Congress only mentions state representatives.

Question — was MacWillie a full voting member, similar to a representative from a state? Or was his position more similar to a Delegate (United States Congress), comparable to the positions of individuals in Category:Delegates to the United States House of Representatives from Arizona Territory? Nyttend (talk) 13:00, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
 * 1st Confederate States Congress and 2nd Confederate States Congress both list him as a non-voting delegate. The articles are referenced to a book; if you can find a copy you might be able to get more information.  -- Jayron 32 13:31, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

Chinese education system in Singapore and Malaysia
I always get these two countries confused. So, Singapore gets the name from a Malay word. There are ethnic Han people in both Singapore and Malaysia. People in Singapore speak English, Singlish, Mandarin, Tamil, and Malay. People in Malaysia speak Malay, Tamil, varieties of Chinese, English, and Manglish. Singapore has the Speak Mandarin campaign, but to my knowledge, Malaysia does not. In Singapore, the Speak Mandarin campaign has greatly decreased the number of regional Chinese speakers, and now people largely speak English. Most people there are also Han, so Mandarin is common there as well. But the education system is just like a foreign language department. In Malaysia, people send their kids to “Chinese-medium primary schools”, or maybe that’s in Singapore? But these schools teach every subject in Mandarin. In Malaysia (or Singapore?), people who are of Han descent but only speak English or Malay are derided as the “bananas”. Though, some people of Han descent in Malaysia seem to only speak Malay, while some people of Han descent in Singapore seem to speak only English. But anyway, has anybody written anything about the differences between the Singaporean and Malaysian Chinese language education system? 140.254.70.33 (talk) 15:02, 21 February 2018 (UTC)


 * The name "Singapore" comes from the Sanskrit for "lion city" (Sanskrit makes a number of modern appearances in the region, such as in "Sukarnoputri", where "putri" is Sanskrit for "daughter"). I don't know the fine details of the various educational systems, but the basic difference between the two countries is that ethnic groups are considered equal in Singapore, and the government there encourages the use of English as an inter-ethnic lingua franca, while Malaysia has an official blood-and-soil racist ideology and constitution according to which only ethnic Malays can be full citizens or "sons of the the soil" (bhumiputra, another Sanskrit word), while all members of other ethnic groups are officially foreigners in a sense, no matter how long their ancestors have lived in the territory of current-day Malaysia... AnonMoos (talk) 18:57, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Not entirely correct. Although bumiputera is often taken as a synonym for Malay, bumiputera in Sabah and Sarawak has included anyone considered native since the founding of Malaysia. In peninsular Malaysia, the definition has often excluded orang asli, it sounds like things may be changing now although this has not yet included a constitutional change. The definition of Malay requires that they are Muslim, regardless of any other factors. It also theoretically allows someone to become Malay, although how this happens is poorly defined. It is not generally possible to become one of the other Bumiputera, and there is great controversy about government encouraged Malayisation of non-Malay bumiputera. Nil Einne (talk) 23:09, 21 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Hi. You might be interested in Education in Singapore and Education in Malaysia; we’ve also got Language education in Singapore though not yet Language education in Malaysia. For your specific question in bold, you’d probably like to look through google scholar: https://scholar.google.com for academic studies of the two systems (examples 1 2 3) or google books https://books.google.com (example: https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=x3aoBQAAQBAJ]). 70.67.222.124 (talk) 21:06, 21 February 2018 (UTC)


 * You're right that in Malaysia, parents are able to send their children to government funded Chinese-medium primary schools (simplified Chinese and Mandarin), assuming they are any in their area. There are also Tamil-medium primary schools although there are a lot less common. There tends to be great controversy about whether the government is funding them sufficiently and opening enough of these schools, and also about excessive government interference or suggestions the government plans to close them. However they are fairly popular, and especially with the rising importance of China, it isn't unheard of for students not of Chinese descent to attend them. For a somewhat extreme example see e.g. . In Malay-medium primary schools, Chinese or Tamil language classes may be offered if there is enough demand although the standards vary. E.g. in my school it was semi-compulsory (if you were of that ethnicity) additional classes on a Saturday. But I believe in some schools it is taught during the normal school day. You do not sit the subject in the Primary School Evaluation Test (Malaysia) (UPSR). After primary school there are only private Chinese-medium secondary schools. Again, if there is enough demand, Chinese language classes should be offered and you could choose to take a an exam for Chinese language at the Penilaian Menengah Rendah and you can still choose to sit one for the Sijil Pelajaran Malaysia. That said, in my school although I think over 50% of the students came from Chinese-medium schools, very few continued with Chinese to PMR, and even fewer to the SPM. English is a compulsory subject in all government involved schools in Malaysia, which includes all exams. However the standard of teaching varies and there is often no requirement for any level of performance, unlike there is with Malay. (Although there is now for public universities.) In KL at least, I think it's very rare for someone of Chinese descent to only speak Malay. Most will at least speak English in addition, often in preference to Malay, or perhaps Manglish, and well enough that they can generally be understood by most Malaysians who speak English. At least 20 years ago, it was still very common for people of Chinese descent to converse mostly in the dominant dialect of the area. Or their own dialect if it was among family and friends who speak that dialect. While there was some very minor 'speak Mandarin' push from some teachers, and more generally a 'speak Malay' from the government, at least in my school it was very common for a lot of conversation between friends to be in Cantonese. I think things are changing slightly with the rising importance of Chinese, still Malaysia never had the push to 'speak Mandarin' that Singapore (or China) had that has pushed out dialects to a reasonable degree. Nil Einne (talk) 22:57, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

Italian antarctic claims
Were there any Italian antarctic claims? Both official and not official (like from some important historical figure). Thanks! --2.34.183.183 (talk) 17:51, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
 * According to Territorial claims in Antarctica, no. -- Jayron 32 18:30, 21 February 2018 (UTC)


 * 2.34.183.183 -- Any such claims would have seemed rather abstract and theoretical (not to mention slightly silly) if there was no corresponding Italian antarctic exploratory expedition. Italy already had its hands full with various ventures in Africa north of the equator... AnonMoos (talk) 18:37, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

Only 7 current states have territorial claims in Antarctica: Argentina, Australia, Chile, France, New Zealand, Norway, and the United Kingdom. The article mentions former interest in the area by Brazil, Nazi Germany, Russia, the Soviet Union, the United States, and Uruguay (most of them never launched a formal claim, but considered it at various points), but not Italy.

In 1981, Italy became a signatory state of the Antarctic Treaty System, but it is limited to having consultative status and participating in decision-making. See: http://www.ats.aq/devAS/ats_parties.aspx?lang=e Dimadick (talk) 17:23, 22 February 2018 (UTC)