Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2018 February 28

= February 28 =

SAM Serve America Movement
I found a full page ad in the Kansas City Star today and I am curious about SAM but I am unable to find any reference to this organization on Wikipedia. SAM Serve America Movement seem to be an attempt to create a New Political Party. If that is true I would like to learn more about the organization and it's supporters, contributors, and founders. With all the current new about computer hacking, misleading internet content, and inferred subversion by the Russians I am hoping that Wikipedia can do some research about this subject and if viable perhaps create a place for it in the scope, breath, range, and purview of subject matter. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Skipfoto (talk • contribs)
 * Here is an editorial written by the organization's founder, which isn't really a neutral source. Here is an interview with the Washington Examiner by a high-ranking member of the group. This Associated Press article has a few sentences on the group. Regarding starting a new article about them at Wikipedia, I think this is right on the line of the minimum threshold for creating an article.  There's lots of stuff out there on the web; they have a website of their own that they publish with lots of information, and they have lots of paid press releases out there; but actual independent coverage is superficial and scanty.  It would be hard to build an enitre article if we didn't use their own self-written material.  It's close, but I'm not sure its there yet.  Give it some time to see if more gets written about them; or see if you can find more genuinely independent sources, before setting off to create the article.  -- Jayron 32 15:07, 28 February 2018 (UTC)

Translation from German to English
Hi can you please translate the following:

Versuch einer Verallgemeinerung der stetigen nirgend differenzierbaren Funktion Bolzanos

Thanks. scope_creep (talk) 15:50, 28 February 2018 (UTC)
 * It's an incomplete sentence fragment (maybe the title of a paper or thesis?). "Attempt to generalise the continuous (but) nowhere differentiable function of Bolzano". Or more idiomatically: "A generalisation of Bolzano's continuous but non-differentiable function" (assuming the author succeeded, which is the normal case in a paper). People on the Reference desk/Mathematics might have even smoother suggestions. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 18:31, 28 February 2018 (UTC)

Hi Stephan Schulz, it is a thesis title by Wilhelm Vauck. That is perhaps why it is considered incomplete. I think the idiomatic version is decent. Thanks. scope_creep (talk) 18:40, 28 February 2018 (UTC)

Are infants and puppies and kittens always more expensive to adopt than older children and pets?
140.254.70.33 (talk) 17:46, 28 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Older children and animals are always more expensive to maintain. 92.31.136.24 (talk) 17:59, 28 February 2018 (UTC)
 * But infants and puppies eventually grow older. 140.254.70.33 (talk) 18:02, 28 February 2018 (UTC)
 * What's the basis of your question? Where did you get that idea from? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 19:08, 28 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Well, there is a local cat adoption center. Kittens are placed at a higher price than older cats and cats with disabilities. I presume they have higher demand. Also, Google can provide short excerpts from webpages that answer specific questions, and I notice that babies actually cost more to adopt than older children. I’m aware that there is some sort of stigma with adopting older children and older pets. With pets, I suspect that older pets look less cute than younger pets. For older children . . . some other reason, I suppose. 140.254.70.33 (talk) 20:14, 28 February 2018 (UTC)
 * No comment on children, but regarding animals:
 * A cat's average lifespan is like 10 or 15 years. If you get a kitten that's not even a year old, you'll probably get at least 10 years with a cat who at least gets that you're not gonna eat him.  If you get a cat that's 9 years old, you might get up to 6 years with a cat who might absolutely hate you.  (But adult cats who are used to to the shelter are generally awesome and used to people).
 * TL;DR: Adult cats probably get marked down for the same reason canned goods near their sale-by date do. Ian.thomson (talk) 20:25, 28 February 2018 (UTC)

The issue with adopting older children isn't so much "stigma"; rather, if an older child is put into foster care, or up for adoption, they often have a traumatic past (physical abuse, emotional abuse, sexual abuse, neglect), and resulting behavioural difficulties, of the whole spectrum of severity. Ergo, adoption agencies are more "desperate", so to speak, to place them, as opposed to healthy babies, where there are large numbers of potential adopters per baby. I don't know how to source this, so can anyone either confirm or refute? Eliyohub (talk) 11:23, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
 * I heard the same. Plus, only babies and puppies can be expected to have no "baggage" so to speak. Older children will always know that they are adopted and older pets will always remember their previous life. My girlfriend adopted an adult cat (2 year old) last year and it was reacting extremely to harmless attempts to cuddle because she waas likely abused by her former owner. Only now she slowly adapted to her new life. Most people don't want to deal with that, so the demand is higher for pets (and kids) who are young enough not to have experienced any trauma. Regards SoWhy 11:38, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
 * So the answer for the OP would be supply and demand. Kind of like this: Would the OP rather spend more for a brand new car? Or spend less on a similar-model used car with a questionable history? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 13:48, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
 * It’s not a fair comparison. A used car may be old, but it can be fixable or already in working condition. I’ll probably ask the dealer to give me a test run. Also, cars deprecate in value over time, but if it’s still functional, then it’ll serve the purpose. Some used cars can look and behave exactly like new cars, because they have been well managed and polished. It’s like an old cat at the adoption center who has received all the shots and is spayed/neutered. 140.254.70.33 (talk) 15:21, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
 * A useful comparison is between articles which are designed to fail (planned obsolescence) and those designed to last a lifetime, which cost slightly more.  See . 92.19.174.150 (talk) 16:49, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Expenses and abuse aside, babies (and kittens and puppies) are also desirable to many because they are distinctly different than their older counterparts. Adopting a cat can be very rewarding, but only a kitten does that adorable stiff-legged bounce thing where they seem to be composed of flubber. Adopting a child can be very rewarding, but only an infant exercises some of those base parental instincts and needs (their first word, their first step, etc.) Matt Deres (talk) 17:36, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Expenses, abuse, and cuteness aside, kittens and puppies are priced higher to dissuade adopters who intend to abandon the animal the moment it grows up, a serious issue in animal welfare. Nobody who adopts a nine-year-old cat is going to give it up in six months because it’s no longer cute; probably 3/4 of people looking for free kittens do exactly that. 24.76.103.169 (talk) 00:14, 2 March 2018 (UTC)

"With pets, I suspect that older pets look less cute than younger pets. "

I doubt that. Me and my brother co-own two elderly dogs, which we have raised since they were puppies. They are now 12-years-old and 10-years-old respectively, and we have been told that they are approaching the end of their lives. They still look cute, still love to play and cuddle. But they can get exhausted much more easily.

The main issue with owning elderly pets is that medical expenses for the pet may keep increasing as more health problems appear. Every pet will need a couple of vaccinations per year, plus pills for various conditions. Add conditions like inner ear infections, osteoarthritis (both long-term problems for my male dog), various injuries, surgeries for various conditions, and you might be finding yourself paying a small fortune to your veterinarian. Dimadick (talk) 19:00, 2 March 2018 (UTC)


 * I'll echo IP24's point. When my unpedigreed blonde shepherd had pups, my dad advertised them for sale for $50 each.  I asked why he didn't just give them away, and he said that people who would be willing to buy them for $50 would be responsible owners.  My sister ran into the obverse when she was moving between graduate schools, and trying to sell unwanted items.  She had a really crappy dresser which she marked "FREE!"  No one would take it.  At the end of the day, she marked it $50, and someone quickly talked her down to a more reasonable $40! μηδείς (talk) 00:09, 4 March 2018 (UTC)