Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2018 January 15

= January 15 =

Christian views -> Prohibitionism
Having just discovered, to my surprise, that there is [still] a Prohibition Party in the United States, and that some/much of its views is based on Christian thinking, I read Christian views on alcohol.

However, I struggled to see much in that page that could be considered as a scriptural basis for opposing alcohol consumption, either from the New Testament or the Old. Best I could see was an interesting take on the Leviticus ban on priests drinking being applied to Christians but there must be better than that and to be honest I may have missed it in the page.

Can someone point me at an article that succinctly lists relevant excerpts? --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 10:48, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
 * For clarity, I mean *consumption*, not *drunkenness*. I'm aware that of Biblical texts that implicitly and explicitly condemn drunkenness. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 12:10, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
 * For an opposite view, sea the Wedding Feast at Cana. If that wasn't an acknowledgment by Jesus Himself that alcohol is not intrinsically evil and that its consumption is not intrinsically sinful, nothing is.  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  12:28, 15 January 2018 (UTC)


 * That article has a rather obvious gap. jumping from "Before Christ" to the "Early Church" without a mention of the New Testament. There is an article entitled Alcohol in the Bible which fills in some of the gap - though even that fails to discuss 1 Corinthians 6:19 which has been of considerable importance in the debate. Wymspen (talk) 12:44, 15 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Many a family has been destroyed by substance abuse, be it alcohol or narcotics. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 13:03, 15 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Not sure who you're replying to - doesn't seem to address any points raised so far. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 13:06, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
 * The family is central to religious philosophy. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 13:19, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
 * That's a truism for many religions, but nothing to do with this discussion. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 13:27, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
 * It has everything to do with it. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 13:29, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
 * It would be relevant if philosophers had the ability to conjure up new verses of Scripture that decry alcohol consumption. If they do, please point me in their direction, as that's what I'm after. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 13:35, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for replies. I'm still struggling to see any verses that explicitly decry alcohol consumption, including 1 Corinthians 6:19. Maybe there aren't any and it's all about interpretation? --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 13:06, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Of course not, and until recently with water filtration it would have been considered stupid to travel and not drink weak beer or have some wine in the water as otherwise one would get whatever nasty stomach bug was going around from where one was going. Dmcq (talk) 14:41, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
 * OK thanks guys. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 15:12, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I think you are correct; there are no Bible verses that explicitly and directly say not to drink alcohol in general. However, it's easy to find people who disagree with that with a simple search (say "Bible against alcohol").  I don't think they have a very good case, but to find out what case they have, that would be one place to start.
 * One particularly vehement hit is https://www.scionofzion.com/drinking.htm, which lists 75 verses that it claims are against alcohol. Note that in some cases the actual verse is reproduced, whereas in others the note gives what the site thinks the verse says about alcohol, and there's no notation which is which, so you might have to look them up.
 * Of the ones I've tracked down, the only one I can find that says something bad about wine per se is Proverbs 20:1, "Wine is a mocker and beer a brawler; whoever is led astray by them is not wise." I think we can agree that this is not a clear and direct prohibition.
 * On a side note, the anti-alcohol exegetes assert that the word wine, as used in the Bible in English, sometimes means "unfermented grape juice" (which they presumably claim is what Jesus made at Cana). Does anyone have any information on the veracity of that claim? --Trovatore (talk) 20:47, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
 * See Alcohol in the Bible. On a related note, naturally occurring yeasts cause grape juice to begin fermenting the moment it is pressed. The use of pasteurization to stop fermentation of grape juice was not developed until the 19th century. Shock Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 20:56, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Correct (see grape juice), but you do need to be careful; fermentation is only an issue if you're planning on storing the juice for a period of time. If all you want to do is squeeze some fruit and drink the runoff, that's a process that has presumably existed for as long as people have thought about squeezing fruit. The "invention" of unfermented grape juice was in applying the process of pasteurization to it for long term storage. Matt Deres (talk) 19:43, 16 January 2018 (UTC)


 * For Christians, the First Epistle to the Corinthians is instructive; several times (chapter 6, chapter 10) it returns to the notion that Chistian behavior is governed not by what is allowed and what is not allowed, but rather by what is beneficial and useful, especially with regards to how others will view the behavior in question. Paul discourages Christians from thinking in behavioral absolutes with regards to food and drink, and instead to think in terms of situational usefulness: What sort of behavior will affect one's own Christian witness in the particular situation one is in.  1 Corinthians 10:23 " 'I have the right to do anything,' you say—but not everything is beneficial. 'I have the right to do anything'—but not everything is constructive. ", 1 Corinthinas 10:31-32 "So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God.  Do not cause anyone to stumble, whether Jews, Greeks or the church of God".  Paul directly references Christ's own teachings, i.e. Matthew 15, specifically Matthew 15:11 "What goes into someone’s mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them." and in a more general sense, Matthew 22:36-40, which is that one needs only keep two commandmants to keep God's law: the V'ahavta (Love God) and the Golden Rule (Love your neighbor as yourself).  -- Jayron 32 01:16, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

Some interesting additions, thanks all. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 10:11, 16 January 2018 (UTC)