Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2018 June 14

= June 14 =

If rape was historically seen as a crime against the property of the man to whom the woman belonged, then what happened to the women without male guardians?
Maybe a young woman's father dies, leaving the woman a half-orphan or full orphan. Maybe the woman's husband dies, leaving the woman a widow. Or maybe the woman is a prostitute, working for the head of the brothel, who is a woman. In all three cases, does the female belong to a male guardian at all? Would rape exist under these situations? SSS (talk) 00:56, 14 June 2018 (UTC)


 * It's going to be tough to answer without specifics. Does history of rape help? Under Ancient Rome, it says this: "As a matter of law, rape could be committed only against a citizen in good standing. The rape of a slave could be prosecuted only as damage to the owner's property. People who worked as prostitutes or entertainers, even if they were technically free, suffered infamia, the loss of legal and social standing. " There are links to several related articles as well. Matt Deres (talk) 01:44, 14 June 2018 (UTC)


 * SuperSuperSmarty: in many ancient cultures with customs which would now be considered severely patriarchal -- including Republican Rome and the Biblical Israelites -- society was organized into patrilineal lineages, which were grouped into patrilineal clans, so that their definitions of "family" may be different than you're imagining. AnonMoos (talk) 13:55, 14 June 2018 (UTC)

Theodora (c. 500-548) instigated a few legislative reforms concerning the rights of women in the Byzantine Empire: "Theodora participated in Justinian's legal and spiritual reforms, and her involvement in the increase of the rights of women was substantial. She had laws passed that prohibited forced prostitution "and was known for buying girls who had been sold into prostitution, freeing them, and providing for their future." She closed brothels and made pimping a criminal offense. She created a convent on the Asian side of the Dardanelles called the Metanoia (Repentance), where the ex-prostitutes could support themselves. She also expanded the rights of women in divorce and property ownership, instituted the death penalty for rape, forbade exposure of unwanted infants, gave mothers some guardianship rights over their children, and forbade the killing of a wife who committed adultery. Procopius wrote that she was naturally inclined to assist women in misfortune. After Theodora's death, "little effective legislation was passed by Justinian." " Dimadick (talk) 16:53, 14 June 2018 (UTC)


 * What a great person. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 17:58, 14 June 2018 (UTC)

What did Roy Jenkins have against Lloyd George?
In the acknowledgements to Roy Hattersley's David Lloyd George - The Great Outsider Hattersley writes "It was Roy Jenkins who, many years ago, suggested that I write a biography of David Lloyd George - a politician he disliked so heartily that he could not contemplate writing the book himself". So my question is - why? DuncanHill (talk) 18:34, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
 * The lead of our biog of David Lloyd George contains text that might be the answer: "He gave weak support to the war effort during the Second World War amidst fears that he was favourable toward Germany.". But this is speculative. It could have been just about anything - there's plenty in his biog that someone might choose to despise, from his policies to his womanising, and I'm not sure you'll get an answer here that's compliant with the Ref Desk's mandate not to speculate. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 10:09, 15 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Jenkins did write a biography of Asquith, Lloyd George's predecessor. That may provide some answers. Dalliance (talk) 12:21, 15 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Having slept on it, I found this by Andrew Adonis in the New Statesman "Hattersley declares in his opening words that Roy Jenkins suggested the idea of this biography of Lloyd George, "a politician he disliked so heartily that he could not contemplate writing the book himself". It would help uninitiated readers if he explained why. Jenkins was not only Herbert Asquith's biographer, but Asquithian to the core, modelling himself on the Balliol-trained, urbane, broad-minded Liberal leader. Asquith's enemies were Jenkins's enemies, Lloyd George foremost among them after their wartime split in 1916. For all its empathetic brilliance, Jenkins's 1964 biography fails to acknowledge Asquith's manifest unfitness as a war leader. It also skates over his womanising and excessive drinking." which seems to make sense (Squiffites have always had a curious ability to detest Lloyd George's domestic arrangements while remaining silent about Asquith's compulsive groping). One is tempted of course to add that Jenkins was from Monmouthshire and Lloyd George from Caernarvonshire (quite apart from the traditional rivalry between North and South Wales, LlG had been given a very hard time of it by the south for his attempts to create a single Welsh Liberal organisation), and that Jenkins, for all his good qualities, was a bit of a snob. DuncanHill (talk) 12:53, 15 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I have just acquired Jenkins's The Chancellors, which includes essays on both Asquith and Lloyd George, and that may provide some more insight. It'll have to wait until I've finished Hattersley, and A. J. P. Taylor's Twelve Essays (which I'm reading in parallel), though. DuncanHill (talk) 13:38, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

Railway projects in japan
If Japan railways are privatised, how does Japan Railway Construction, Transport and Technology Agency a government agency get involved in the construction of new lines which the private companies operate? Presumably the government fund the developed proposals, which would be developed jointly with the private operators, but how is it decided which company will operate the new line? And do they just gain ownership or do they buy it off JRTT? 176.250.81.228 (talk) 21:01, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
 * See JTT - For the Future Transportation Networks: "The construction projects are funded by the national and local governments as well as by revenue generated from the sale of existing shinkansen lines. We have already completed three sections on three lines including the Hokuriku Shinkansen (Takasaki - Nagano). After completion, facilities are leased to and operated by Japan Railway companies (JR)". Alansplodge (talk) 12:26, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

List of countries by meat consumption per capita
I want to use this source. How do I get grand totals from that? Are there other sources you might know of?

Why? Here is the blah blah blah...

We do not have List of countries by meat consumption per capita.

We have List of countries by meat consumption but that's how much is eaten per capita including what is missing via retail, food service, home preparation, spoilage, downstream waste, bones, and pets foods.

Lots of articles per capita here: Category:Lists of countries by per capita values

This cat is sparsely populated: Category:Lists of countries by consumption

Many thanks,

Anna Frodesiak (talk) 23:15, 14 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Hi User:Anna Frodesiak, I'm not sure I understand your question: are you just asking how to transfer that OECD data into a wiki page? When I look at the OECD page I see CSV download links that let you pull the data into a spreadsheet.  Then you can easily get rid of unwanted columns or figure out totals.  You can re-export your modified table as CSV, then paste the CSV here to get a Mediawiki table that you can then plop into an article.  Web search on "CSV to mediawiki table" finds a lot of other tools for doing such conversions if the mlei.net page isn't suitable.  If you meant something else or want more help with the conversion, please post again.  173.228.123.166 (talk) 03:23, 17 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi there. Thanks for http://mlei.net/shared/tool/csv-wiki.htm. Nice utility.


 * Actually, what I'm looking for is totals. The chart seems to show "Beef and veal", "Pork meat", "Poultry meat", and "Sheep meat" rather than the total of all those meats. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 06:41, 17 June 2018 (UTC)

(slow response because I can't edit much these days) there is probably some spreadsheet method to find those sums, but I'm not much of a spreadsheet user so I don't know what it is. The "nerd" way is with an SQL query, after loading the csv into an SQL table, e.g.

sqlite> SELECT location, sum(value) FROM meat GROUP BY location ;

I did that and got this output:

ARG,88.7562887774857 AUS,94.6115319648306 BGD,3.29021034649615 BRA,78.6035700998469 BRICS,32.4783160839565 CAN,69.9919688643171 CHL,71.9711459350933 CHN,50.1981247420625 COL,43.9206564818592 DZA,17.3265753658549 EGY,19.9446323475663 ETH,4.21823821451208 EU28,69.6418582571951 GHA,9.32177111305217 HTI,14.1876422660499 IDN,11.2726647520883 IND,3.15713770381889 IRN,28.9789808368087 ISR,80.3504721900628 JPN,36.4491066505215 KAZ,43.65012921782 KOR,55.8852268241068 MEX,47.7102864000832 MOZ,7.20712709024856 MYS,54.7520267234783 NGA,5.90885407975511 NZL,72.1392025199169 OECD,69.7015359802868 PAK,12.7886506637266 PER,47.5348753464188 PHL,29.6196980917654 PRY,52.6773520934882 RUS,60.6595210497027 SAU,54.0491135908461 SDN,0.016189835534 SSA,8.19510495310989 THA,22.8529121456956 TUR,30.3870968850099 TZA,6.82134243384241 UKR,41.6839381785562 URY,81.0363672910619 USA,98.6002348933792 VNM,52.903401589469 WLD,34.3664010128062 ZAF,50.1690400409228 ZMB,13.6383677377017

I'll leave it to you to paste into the mediawiki table converter since it's probably easier to edit in csv form. If you want more help, I'm sure the WP:RDC regulars are better at this than I am, besides being around more. 173.228.123.166 (talk) 06:28, 22 June 2018 (UTC)