Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2018 November 11

= November 11 =

More Native Americans questions.
Do we know if when 2 Native American tribes are allies or enemies, on if they speak the same broad language or different? I feel like if they can't speak the same language, it's tough for them to be allies. Do we know if some Native American tribes, say by 1600s, were a merge of 2 or more tribes, like a smaller tribe merged into a larger tribe (assuming they speak the same language.). From Canada to South America. 67.175.224.138 (talk) 04:17, 11 November 2018 (UTC).


 * The Huron were Iroquoian and spoke an Iroquoian language, but they were the enemy of the Haudenosaunee (a confederation of several other Iroquois nations). So even if they do speak a related language they are not necessarily allies. Adam Bishop (talk) 12:35, 11 November 2018 (UTC)


 * I don't understand the premise. The first peoples of the Americas were normal people with normal desires and hangups and they built groups with changing priorities and alliances and rivalries just like any others in the world. The UK has fought both with and against the USA and with and against France - language has little to do with it. Interpreters have always existed; people figure things out if there is a will to do so. Matt Deres (talk) 15:08, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
 * You know how China is 1 big country. It's been like that for some 2200 years. Before that, they were like Native Americans, consisting of multiple tribes. But there was a Huangdi who was able to unite all Chinese tribes into 1 big nation. Native Americans never did that. And not all Chinese speak the same language today. Heh. 67.175.224.138 (talk) 01:57, 13 November 2018 (UTC).


 * 67.175.224.138 -- the pre-1492 distribution of the Algonquian languages was broad enough to contain any number of antagonistic relationships within it. By the way, in certain areas of inland South America "Almost every individual knows fluently three, four, or more languages"... -- AnonMoos (talk) 15:16, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

"if they speak the same broad language or different"

You may want to consult the List of language families. We have articles on (from most speakers to less speakers): Quechuan languages, Mayan languages, Tupian languages, Aymaran languages, Uto-Aztecan languages, Oto-Manguean languages, Arawakan languages, Chibchan languages, Totonacan languages, Araucanian languages, Algic languages, Na-Dene languages, Misumalpan languages, Mixe–Zoque languages, Choco languages, Eskimo–Aleut languages, Jivaroan languages, Cariban languages, Matacoan languages, Guaicuruan languages, Jê languages, Pano-Tacanan languages, Siouan languages, Yanomaman languages, Tucanoan languages, Barbacoan languages, Mascoian languages, Piaroa–Saliban languages, Witotoan languages, Muskogean languages, Iroquoian languages, Keres language, Cahuapanan languages, Hokan languages, Tanoan languages, Esmeralda–Yaruroan languages, Zamucoan languages, Arawan languages, Peba–Yaguan languages, Chimane language, Penutian languages, Macro-Puinavean languages, Nadahup languages, Chapacuran languages, Salishan languages, Maxakalían languages, Uru–Chipaya languages, Nambikwaran languages, Wakashan languages, Mura language, Jicaquean languages, Zaparoan languages, Arutani–Sape languages, Caddoan languages, Yok-Utian languages, Alacalufan languages, Chimakuan languages, Katembri–Taruma languages, Katukinan languages, Lule–Vilela languages, Yabutian languages, Wintuan languages, Tiniguan languages, Yuki–Wappo languages (extinct), Catacaoan languages (extinct), Charruan languages (extinct), Chimuan languages (extinct), Chonan languages (extinct), Hibito–Cholon languages (extinct), Jirajaran languages (extinct), Lencan languages (extinct), Otomákoan languages (extinct), Tequiraca–Canichana languages (extinct), Timotean languages (extinct), and Xincan languages (extinct). The Americas have always been linguistically diverse. Dimadick (talk) 20:26, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

Buddhist Monk
Dear Ladies and Gentlemen

I have read many years ago about a Buddhist monk who excessively self-tortured himself and apparently went so far that he even hanged at least a part of his (while he was still alive!) innards on a tree "to let them dry". This shocked most of the eyewitnesses of the time. I do not recall the name of the man, does someone of you know the monk`s name?

Thank you for your answers--2A02:1205:505D:1BB0:8CC0:8297:EFBC:CD56 (talk) 13:55, 11 November 2018 (UTC)


 * A quick search only brought up the practice of Kaihōgyō by Japanese Tendai monks, which entails a thousand day hike around Mount Hiei. Not mentioned in our article but quoted by several sources is that those who drop-out "must commit suicide by hanging or disembowelment".   Alansplodge (talk) 14:55, 11 November 2018 (UTC)


 * There are a few bigger "believe communities" but each shrine, monastery or school teaches its own interpretation of Buddhism. Actually most religions have big local distinctions, even if they have an organizational center and Headmaster claiming a region or more bound to his interpretation. Dalai Lama is especially interesting for your Question because some Dalai Lamas in the past where horrible bloody dictators and warlords. Famous Vlad the Impaler was officially an orthodox Christian that allegedly had a horrible idea how to act as the shepherd of his subjects, christian rulers commonly strive to be. --Kharon (talk) 17:21, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Nitpicking: Vlad the Impaler was a Catholic, and he's today remembered as a great historical figure in Romania since he achived major victories over the Ottomans, who weren't exactly opposed to impaling victims themselves. What earned him the notoriety was probably that he used the same gruesome tactics in Transylvania in the war for the Hungarian throne, as impaling was back then in that area considered something mostly for infidels/heretics only. 93.136.83.252 (talk) 00:53, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Vlad the Impaler suggests he may have converted to Catholicism after his imprisonment in Hungary before his third rule which was after he had already impaled a bunch of people. He was definitely friendly and received the support of Catholics for a long time e.g. our article says he claimed he broke peace with the sultan "for the preservation of Christianity and the strengthening of the Catholic faith". I'm not sure if it's clear that he converted, I'm having trouble finding good RS because a lot of stuff is talking about his brother and the rest is non RS. Some of the non RS say he definitely converted because his marriage (I presume to a Catholic) was documented [//www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-Vlad-Tepes-was-a-traitor-and-betrayed-the-Holy-Orthodox-for-Papism]. On the other hand some other often more wacky sources say stuff like it's all a lie by the Catholics or some such to defame our great Orthodox hero, or that he was born Catholic and converted to Orthodox and then converted back, or simply that was an evil Catholic so shouldn't be an Orthodox hero (but often don't say if he was Catholic for life). E.g. [//www.byzcath.org/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/46541/Re:%20Vlad%20Dracula!] or [//orthodoxwiki.org/Vlad_the_Impaler] or the 2nd reply in the Quora thread. Well even some of the 'converted to Catholicism' ones are like that e.g. [//hellenicnationalist.blogspot.co.nz/2007/03/vlad-tepes-died-catholic-orthodox.html], one reason I'm reluctant to entirely trust all this converted stuff. Our article claims without a direct source that Vlad II Dracul was Orthodox. Nil Einne (talk) 19:11, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Christian rulers commonly strive to be the shepherds of their subjects? Exactly which alternate universe's history are you taking that idea from? --Khajidha (talk) 12:29, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
 * What you describe sounds like an extreme form of Sokushinbutsu. That article and its references may be of use to you. Wymspen (talk) 17:30, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

Buddha/Zarathustra Works
Dear Ladies and Gentlemen

I am looking for a full online version of the Zend-Avesta, the holy book of Zarathustra and the original words (or the clostest possible) of Buddha. I speak some German and Spanish, so online versions in these languages would not be difficult for me to read. I have searched with the help of Google, but was unable to find a satisfying result.

Thank you very much for your answers--2A02:1205:505D:1BB0:8CC0:8297:EFBC:CD56 (talk) 14:01, 11 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Some parts of the Sutta Pitaka of the Pali Canon presumably fairly closely reflect the thinking of the Buddha and his personal disciples. AnonMoos (talk) 15:35, 11 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Here's one . 86.157.229.93 (talk) 16:06, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
 * And another . 86.157.229.93 (talk) 16:17, 11 November 2018 (UTC)