Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2018 November 18

= November 18 =

Non-EU euro use
I just read through much of International status and usage of the euro, and parts of it surprised me. For one thing, why did the microstates have to sign agreements in order to be in the eurozone? Andorra I can understand, since its coprinces are in the eurozone (maybe the EU would sanction France if their president were helping a non-EU country join the eurozone without authorisation), but the others I don't quite understand. Was there the implied threat of sanctions if they used it without permission, e.g. "if you start using the euro and minting coins unilaterally, we won't recognise your banks' international monetary transactions"? Merely getting left out of the central bank's government doesn't seem a huge penalty, especially for tiny states whose money has long been tied to their much larger neighbors. And secondly, I just don't quite see how this is different from one state adopting another's currency, e.g. the idea of Panama adopting the euro (International status and usage of the euro, or how Andorra used the franc and the peseta without some sort of agreement. What am I missing?  Nyttend (talk) 00:26, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

PS, I'm taking my Merely sentence from the "Unilateral adopters" section: Former European Central Bank president Jean-Claude Trichet has stated the ECB – which does not grant representation to those who unilaterally adopt the euro – neither supports nor deters those wishing to use the currency. Nyttend (talk) 00:27, 18 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Nyttend -- if the microstates were just passively using Euro currency, then that might not have required an agreement, but microstate-minted Euro-denominated coins are considered legal tender within the EU, which definitely does require some kind of agreement. When Panama adopts the dollar, it does not start printing dollar bills (in fact, it had better not!)... 02:19, 18 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Note that per the above article, Andorra used the Euro for quite a few years before the monetary agreement was concluded. See also Andorra and the euro. You may also be interested in the agreement itself [//eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:22011A1217(01)&qid=1542539085470&from=EN]/[//eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A22011A1217%2801%29] or this report on the agreements with the other countries [//eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:52009DC0359&from=EN]/[//eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/ALL/?uri=CELEX:52009DC0359]. While the issuing of coins is a big part, it also deals with institutions having access to interbank settlement and payment and securities settlement systems. While I assume they had that anyway before the agreement, the agreement makes it less likely the EU will unilaterally withdraw their access and in particular, without notice. (The agreements require 1 year notice for unilateral termination except when there's non compliance.) See also [//ec.europa.eu/economy_finance/publications/pages/publication658_en.pdf] Nil Einne (talk) 11:24, 18 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Perhaps they wanted to be certain of access to TARGET2? Matt's talk 23:07, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

The history of academic dress
What's the history of academic dress? From when collegians start puting that? Does it an emulation from some scientist? -- 03:36, 18 November 2018 Sadjad mehnati


 * The article Academic dress contains some hints, including a link to this publication, and more can be found via Undergraduate gowns in Scotland, particularly in the links included in the Footnotes section. The article Town and Gown also alludes to the origin of academic dress.
 * Long story short: distinctive academic dress dates back to the earliest foundations of European universities in the Middle Ages, which evolved from Cathedral or Monastic schools whose staff and pupils naturally wore ecclesiastical or monastic dress. As universities developed in their own right, Lecturers continued to wear distinctive dress as a mark of their status, and students were often required to wear (different) distinctive dress so that they could be easily recognised amongst non-students in places they weren't meant to be, either at certain times or at all. When attending the University of St Andrews I was told that the original choice of red for undergraduate gowns was so that students could be easily spotted in brothels: this may be apocryphal. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.218.14.42 (talk) 05:53, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

What did Vyners sell?
Watching an old film (The Small World of Sammy Lee), in the background in one shot was a shop called "Vyners". I can remember it being a chain of shops, but not what they sold. Can anyone remember? Thanks, DuncanHill (talk) 22:58, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Are you sure it was a shop, and not Vyners School? I can't find anything on a chain of stores named Vyners at all.  Not in discussion forums, historical documents, ANYTHING.  That leads me to believe that 1) It wasn't a shop, but was something else (like that school) or 2) It wasn't a real shop, but a fake one set up for the shot; either a backlot set or a fake storefront or sign set up on location.  -- Jayron 32 03:24, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
 * My research yielded the same results. I also had a good time scanning dozens (if not hundreds) of photos of Soho circa 1963, and a few interesting Pathé film clips; probably saw every storefront -- no "Vyners".  (Interestingly, both the Beatles and the Stones had photo shoots done in Soho, 1963). 107.15.157.44 (talk) 09:12, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I made some screencaps of the scene (or one of the scenes) you seem to be referring to here [//imgur.com/a/leqCLDc]. The sign below the name clearly say "novelty" and "shoes" and the items visible in the window seem to be shoes. It looked like the car went past an entrance to Whitechapel station [//imgur.com/a/TjNR5HZ] not long before it went past this store, but it's hard to say whether that was really true. I don't think it's possible to tell if it's a chain solely from that part of the film. Nil Einne (talk) 12:46, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
 * It seems The Grave Maurice is semi famous [//thekraytwins.wikia.com/wiki/The_Grave_Maurice] [//www.standard.co.uk/go/london/restaurants/pubs-with-a-secret-history-6306109.html] [//surveyoflondon.org/map/feature/496/detail/] [//www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/287631/the-grave-maurice-by-martha-grimes/9780451411013/] and was at 269 Whitechapel Road. This suggest Vyners was probably something 263-267 (The Grave Maurice looks quite large and so is possibly more than one store and I'm not sure if Vyners is a whole store) Whitechapel Road. Nil Einne (talk) 12:56, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
 * This [//www.reelstreets.com/films/small-world-of-sammy-lee-the/] say Vyners was at 267 Whitechapel Road and has a modern image of that section. It doesn't comment on whether it was a chain store. BTW that includes discussion of other locations in the film. Nil Einne (talk) 13:00, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Also looking at it again I realised I misintepreted the sign. I now think it's not "novelty" and "shoes" but "novelty shoes". Nil Einne (talk) 13:21, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you, very helpful. I haven't been able to find anything about a chain of shoe shops called Vyners, but the signage seemed so familiar! (I should point out I did not grow up anywhere near the Whitechapel Road). DuncanHill (talk) 14:15, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Well, there is one mention of a chain (or at least another link). In a forum called The Newham Story is a thread of reminiscences about Angel Lane Bridge in Stratford a couple of miles up the Mile End Road from Whitechapel. One reminiscence (about halfway down headed "Life Could be a Dream") is an essay about living in Stratford in 1959 and says: "Had a look in Vyners shoe shop, they have a nice pair of beige suede stiletto’s in the window 39/11d, I’ll have to see if I can afford them on Friday". In the next sentence, the author describes catching a bus from outside Boardmans, a department store which I remember in Stratford Broadway. I grew up in nearby Leytonstone, but there was definitely no branch of Vyners there. Alansplodge (talk) 19:28, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
 * According to Google maps, Vyners at 267 Whitechapel Road has been replaced by a jeweller.  The site is behind Whitechapel Market, as you can see from the picture.   In 1976 it was still a shoe shop (named Neptune Shoes).   The pub at 269 is now a pawnbroker and bookmaker (as in the modern picture of the Grave Maurice site).   The name "Grave Maurice" is still engraved in the brickwork.   265 (the piano shop) is now a bazaar.   The watchmaker at 261-263 is now a sports shop (below and a furniture shop hostel (I was confused by the word "beds").   The underground station is no. 277.   A car travelling east along Whitechapel Road would pass Vyners before passing the station.   I note that Brady Street used to be called North Street. 92.19.170.212 (talk) 17:02, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
 * And for the curious, Closed Pubs - The Grave Maurice says it originated in 1723, rebuilt in 1874, a haunt of the Kray Twins and finally closed in 2010. No clue where the peculiar name comes from though. Alansplodge (talk) 17:53, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Okay, it's Maurice of the Palatinate (a palsgrave) 1621-1652, who fought for the Royalists in the Civil War and was a popular figure during the Restoration. Alansplodge (talk) 18:07, 22 November 2018 (UTC)

Racial and ethnicity inequalities comparison Canada and Bangladesh conflict perspective
Is there a journal article, a website or a book that deals with racial and ethnicity tensions or inequalities in Canada and Bangladesh in comparison in the sociological perspective of conflict theory? Donmust90 (talk) 23:47, 18 November 2018 (UTC)Donmust90Donmust90 (talk) 23:47, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I can't find any article that explicitly deals with Canada and Bangladesh directly; This article deals mostly with Bangladesh, but mentions Canada; don't know if it has the details you need, but it at least deals with racial conflict and mentions both countries. I hope that gives you a start.  -- Jayron 32 03:21, 19 November 2018 (UTC)