Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2018 November 19

= November 19 =

E. Bedford Grey
Come someone help find out who E. Bedford Grey was? He was an 19th century engraver or artist who made this engraving File:CALIFORNIA – KING KALAKAUA AND SUITE, UNDER ESCORT OF MAYOR OTIS AND STAFF, VIEWING THE SEALS FROM THE CLIFF HOUSE, SAN FRANCISCO. SKETCHED BY E. BEDFORD GREY.jpg. Simple google search will yield nothing. Also can anyone find the source which the engraving was originally published in? KAVEBEAR (talk) 02:09, 19 November 2018 (UTC)


 * It's very unlucky that Bedford Grey/Gray seems to be a popular paint colour. However, the search string "EB Grey" brings up a lone hit in google books. Possibly from Cornwall, born c. 1860? But I can't prove that. 70.67.193.176 (talk) 22:06, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

Hong Kong
Considering Hong Kong has the most expensive housing, why does it have one of the lowest rates of homelessness? (Sources please.) Benjamin (talk) 03:47, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
 * What is your source for those two facts. Before we can answer the why? bit, we need to know that your presumptions are true.  -- Jayron 32 03:49, 19 November 2018 (UTC)


 * If so, please provide sources accordingly. As I would think should be the presumption here, I'm not trying to argue to the point. Benjamin (talk) 05:39, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I think you're making statements ("HK has low rates of cheap housing and of homelessness") and asking for sources to back up those statements; am I correct? Nyttend (talk) 06:19, 19 November 2018 (UTC)


 * No, I assume my assumptions are correct. I would want sources to refute them if they are incorrect, but, again, that's not what I'm here for. I'm seeking sources that would answer my question. Benjamin (talk) 07:32, 19 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Hong Kong ranked world's most expensive housing market for 8th consecutive year. However, I could not find any sources about Hong Kong has the lowest rates of homelessness . ― Abelmoschus  Esculentus  06:35, 19 November 2018 (UTC)


 * List of countries by homeless population lists Hong Kong as having the second lowest rate of homelessness. Benjamin (talk) 07:31, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
 * That's a report for 2014. Prices have been soaring since then. ― Abelmoschus  Esculentus  09:17, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
 * This has an estimate of ~1800 [//www.reuters.com/article/us-hongkong-property-homelessness/homeless-in-hong-kong-soaring-costs-fuel-housing-crisis-in-asian-financial-hub-idUSKBN1FE38W]. Singapore is very low, but that's a government estimate so I'd put it in the same category as registered homeless in Hong Kong. Nil Einne (talk) 10:45, 19 November 2018 (UTC)


 * This says that homeless rates have jumped sharply in recent years as rents have increased and that official figures are probably significant undercounts . Though, even so, the numbers suggested here are still quite low by global standards.  Dragons flight (talk) 11:42, 19 November 2018 (UTC)


 * What is the mortgage status of those tallest working-class residential towers in the world I hear about? Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 14:30, 19 November 2018 (UTC)


 * I suspect that part of the answer is that Hong Kong has weak regulations on housing standards and is a very developed city. The former means that tens of thousands of people can and do live in cage homes, essentially a rentable property consisting solely of one bed. In Europe, those people would be regarded as homeless, but they are not in HK. The latter means that there aren't many options for sleeping out in the urban core. Public spaces are designed to deter rough sleepers and I would imagine (though I don't know) that the efficient police force would not tolerate them in public parks. Matt's talk 23:03, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

One reason is that some 45-50% of the population live in heavily subsidized housing. Private sector housing is priced (purchase or rent) at levels seen only in the better parts of London, New York and San Francisco; public housing is a tiny fraction of that cost. As for homelessness, it does exist but it isn't all that common as there are alternatives easily available.DOR (HK) (talk) 13:42, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Was there this much subsidized housing when it was a British colony? If not, did the government spend lots of money to buy land for new public housing? Did they buy steep land to save on land cost? Are the cages public housing or private? Where is the post-colonial population growth from if fertility rate is low and many Brits left? Are they mostly rich or family members allowed to immigrate or what? Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 14:24, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I was wondering if there were any sources discussing this in detail but since none have really been provided I'll mention I suspect another factor (I saw this suggested in some forum discussion when looking) is the difficult of immigrating to Hong Kong if you are poor given that it's an island etc. While Hong Kong is a part of China, they have a separate visa policy and mainland (and Macau) Chinese residents can't generally stay indefinitely. By comparison, in much of the EU the borders are intentionally porous and while there is some dispute over whether the free movement actually applies to people who are homeless [//www.vice.com/en_uk/article/vbz3k3/the-government-can-no-longer-deport-homeless-europeans] I suspect it's still a lot easier than someone from a poor part of Europe to move to Sweden or whatever and stay there despite being homeless than it is for a mainlander Chinese to do the same in HK. While this doesn't directly apply to the US, the extensive land border and other factors also mean the same for migrants from the poorer part of the Americas. Even for those who do make it, I suspect there's probably some difference in how they are handled when the government encounters them [//www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/hong-kong-law-and-crime/article/2158595/failed-asylum-seekers-left-limbo-countries] [//www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/sweden/12128598/Sweden-is-a-perfect-example-of-how-not-to-handle-the-Great-Migration.html]. Nil Einne (talk) 20:45, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

WWII Americans living in Japan
During World War II, we all know about internment camps for Japanese living in the United States, but what happened to Americans who may have been residing in Japan before the war? Were they similarly detained (or worse)? I don't know much about this, but I became curious about wartime Americans in Japan after hearing of Katsuma Dan, a Japanese scientist who married Jean Clark, an American researcher in 1936. I believe the family lived in Japan, and I know that Dan worked there throughout the war, though I don't know what his wife was doing at that time. Dragons flight (talk) 11:36, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Not reliable sources, but these are all agreed that the relatively small number of Americans still living in Japan when the two countries went to war were either interned or put under house arrest before eventually being repatriated. --Antiquary (talk) 13:34, 19 November 2018 (UTC)


 * This article suggests that she continued working in Japan throughout the war:
 * 'The outbreak of WWII and the complexities of being an American in Japan who needed to look out for and protect her children from both militaries, reduced Jean’s productivity in the laboratory. Following the war, and the famous “the last one to go” incident, Jean returned to America and to Woods Hole'.
 * Alansplodge (talk) 14:17, 19 November 2018 (UTC)


 * You might be interested in reading our very detailed article about Weixian Internment Camp. It wasn't in Japan itself, but in the part of China that was occupied by Japan long before 1941. For a broader overview, see List of Japanese-run internment camps during World War II. Obviously, neither article is specific to US citizens. Matt's talk 22:52, 24 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Although in this specific case there seems to have been no internment. A very rare example of Japanese tolerance in that era. Alansplodge (talk) 11:05, 26 November 2018 (UTC)