Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2018 October 1

= October 1 =

Hoover's pigs
In "Lloyd George and the Search for a Postwar Naval Policy, 1919", an essay by J. Kenneth McDonald in Lloyd George: Twelve Essays edited by A. J. P. Taylor, we read a comment by Thomas Jones (assistant secretary to the Cabinet) to Maurice Hankey (Cabinet Secretary) that "If they [the Admiralty] get their way we shall manufacture Bolsheviks faster than Hoover produced his pigs". I presume that Hoover is Herbert Hoover, but what were his pigs? Thank you, DuncanHill (talk) 13:40, 1 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Should have been "hogs", really. See Nine-banded armadillo. --Viennese Waltz 14:24, 1 October 2018 (UTC)
 * But that makes no sense. Far from producing hogs, Hoover was responsible for their widespread destruction? Martinevans123 (talk) 14:29, 1 October 2018 (UTC)
 * (ec)That says "During the Great Depression, the species was hunted for its meat in East Texas, where it was known as poor man’s pork, or the "Hoover hog" by those who considered President Herbert Hoover to be responsible for the Depression". The Great Depression started in 1929, ten years after the events in the essay. I think Jones's reference must be something to do with Hoover's activities either with the Commission for Relief in Belgium or the United States Food Administration. DuncanHill (talk) 14:33, 1 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Perhaps I should have been clearer, Jones's note to Hankey was dated 11th July 1919. DuncanHill (talk) 14:36, 1 October 2018 (UTC)


 * I assume it must have something to do with his extensive WWI and post-WWI relief efforts. "Hoover" as a derogatory prefix ("Hooverville" = shantytown) is post-1929... AnonMoos (talk) 14:41, 1 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, I found this. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:51, 1 October 2018 (UTC)
 * That would seem to be it, thank you Martin. DuncanHill (talk) 16:37, 1 October 2018 (UTC)


 * On Newspapers.com (a pay site), I found a 1985 article in an Alabama newspaper talking about "Hoover hogs", which was a Depression-era euphemism for rabbit and squirrel in lieu of actual pork. And presumably for any other small wild animal, such as the armadillo. And, yes, it went back to the post-WWI situation, where Americans were asked to make some sacrifices in order to help out Europeans. People doing without were said to have been "Hooverized". So Hoover became an obvious target for ridicule along those same lines, once the Depression set in. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 16:33, 1 October 2018 (UTC)


 * The link of Hoover hog to a section in the armadillo article is inappropriate. Most of the contemporary newspapers I'm seeing (in Missouri, Kansas, etc.) say that a "Hoover hog" is a wild rabbit or squirrel. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 18:09, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

getting blackout drunk
Not seeking to do this-- I heard about it in the news recently and have to wonder how common it is. Does it mean literally drinking til you pass out? Is this something that normal recreational drinkers do on purpose with any regularity? What about more serious professional drinkers / alcoholics? What is the attraction? Or is it something that normally only happens with less experienced drinkers who haven't yet found their limits? Thanks. 173.228.123.166 (talk) 22:37, 1 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Article: Blackout (drug-related amnesia). See also: alcohol intoxication. As indicated, "blackout" formally refers to the temporary loss of ability to form memories, though at the level of intoxication required for that temporary unconsciousness is not uncommon as well. I think by definition a "normal" drinker does not imbibe enough to cause severe intoxication. With alcoholics it's more common. You've presumably heard about it lately in the context of college binge drinking. A subculture that celebrates excessive drinking is a widespread issue in U.S. undergraduate education, and especially in fraternities and sororities.
 * What's the attraction? "Let's get messed up, brah!" It's a group thing, so peer pressure is definitely a factor. A lot of people use excessive drinking as an excuse for engaging in behavior they probably wouldn't sober. As I mentioned, in the U.S. it's most widespread among undergraduates, who are young adults often away from home for the first time, so they see it as celebrating their rebelliousness and independence.
 * You might know that the legal drinking age in the U.S. is 21, but this is effectively a dead letter in the college setting. All you need is someone of age to purchase the alcohol and provide it to underage drinkers. The point of sale is the one place where there is often enforcement, because law enforcement often does stings to ensure stores that sell alcohol are verifying age. --47.146.63.87 (talk) 23:35, 1 October 2018 (UTC)
 * (ec) The article Alcohol intoxication describes the effects of drinking various amounts of ethanol that include the onset of Stage 1 anaesthesia ("blackout") that occurs at a person's blood alcohol concentration (BAC) of 300–399 mg/dL and may be followed by alcohol-related amnesia. I am unsure what makes one a "professional drinker" but see this article about Long-term effects of alcohol consumption that include increased risk of early alcohol use in sons of alcoholics. DroneB (talk) 23:55, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the links, which were helpful. Professional drinker as I've heard it is a jocular term for regular bar patrons who show up and imbibe basically every night, and maybe during the daytime too. If you show up at a bar now and then, after a while you notice there are certain guys who are just always there, sipping away. Thus the inference that they make a living at it somehow. 173.228.123.166 (talk) 01:13, 2 October 2018 (UTC)