Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2019 December 13

= December 13 =

Early female suffrage
The article on Women's suffrage has a list of countries with suffrage before New Zeeland and Finland. I would like to know more about this, and any input beyond the existing article would be welcome. I thought I might start with Kingdom of Hawaii, but any starting point you suggest would do. According to the article "The 1840 Constitution of the Hawaiian Kingdom granted universal adult suffrage in 1840, the first sovereign country to do so. But the right of women to vote was rescinded in the 1852 Constitution of the Hawaiian Kingdom."

I have looked at the sources available online, but not bought the books referred to. The online sources sound plausible, but I would like some more proof, since I have friends that doubt the online sources.

Would anyone care to help me on the subject? My initial searches and book purchases have led me nowhere.

Star Lord -   星爵 (talk) 17:43, 13 December 2019 (UTC)
 * New Zealand was a colony until 1907 when it became a dominion. Sleigh (talk) 19:58, 13 December 2019 (UTC)


 * New Jersey briefly allowed women to vote around 1800. AnonMoos (talk) 23:32, 13 December 2019 (UTC)


 * You may want to look at The Hawaii State Constitution: A Reference Guide By Anne Feder Lee (pp. 2-3) which says: "In many respects, the Constitution of 1840 simply codified existing government structure and practice... The Constitution of 1852 is significant because it expanded on the Declaration of Rights, granted universal (adult male) suffrage for the first time, and changed the house of nobles from a hereditary body to one where members were appointed..." Alansplodge (talk) 23:50, 13 December 2019 (UTC)
 * A Brief History of Citizenship and Voting Rights in Hawai'i (Kingdom, Republic, Territory, and State) by attorney Patrick W. Hanifin (2001) also credits the 1852 Constitution with introducing universal adult male suffrage, but no mention of votes for women. Alansplodge (talk) 23:55, 13 December 2019 (UTC)
 * The 1840 Constitution did not specify the manner of elections "In the fall of 1840, after the signing of the constitution, the chiefs convened in council in Lahaina and passed the first election law. They set seven as the number of members in this new House of Representatives, declared that voting for representatives would consist of letters of nomination addressed to the king, and decided that the person named most frequently in these letters would be an Island's representative."
 * &mdash;eric 00:31, 14 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Maybe the origin of this muddle is in Paradoxes of Hawaiian Sovereignty: Land, Sex, and the Colonial Politics of State Nationalism By J. Kehaulani Kauanui (p. 187), which cites a 1998 paper by David Keanu Sai, which says that the text the 1840 Constitution and later statutes did not prohibit women from voting. The author describes this line of argument as "perplexing" and states "it is the case that Kanaka women did not hold suffrage during at least most of the nineteenth century in elections to the House of Representatives".
 * This news report describes David Keanu Sai as a "controversial Hawaiian scholar" and "a lecturer in Hawaiian Studies at the Windward Community College, [who] has argued that the illegal overthrow of the Hawaiian Kingdom in 1893 has rendered land titles invalid". Alansplodge (talk) 00:40, 14 December 2019 (UTC)
 * I have added "Citation needed|reason=Linked article does not mention female suffrage" to Women's suffrage, but I think we can probably delete this nonsense. Alansplodge (talk) 00:51, 14 December 2019 (UTC)
 * It looks that way. I think I shall take a look at Corsica next. Star Lord  -   星爵 (talk) 11:43, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

non-autistic people
People who are not blind are called "seeing"; is there a similar antonym for "autistic"? Throwaway20191211 (talk) 19:55, 13 December 2019 (UTC)
 * "Neurotypical". Cheers, gnu 57 20:00, 13 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Actually I thought they were more commonly called "sighted"? Elizium23 (talk) 04:26, 14 December 2019 (UTC)
 * You're probably right, Elizium23, thank you. Throwaway20191211 (talk) 22:59, 15 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Neurotypical is the near-antonym for neurodiverse. These terms are new and they're useful for people who want to use non-derogatory language. "Neurodiverse" leaves me a bit wanting, since it's possible to refer to a person in the singular as a 'neurotypical person' but "neurodiverse" describes a variety of people and can't really be used for one person who is non-neurotypical. The only antonym for autistic would be "non-autistic" or "people who don't have autism." (I'll note that the adjectival form is losing favor when describing people of marginalized groups: cf the term "colored people" losing to "people of color." I'll further note that this linguistic detail changes when said groups become less marginalized: we refer to "queer people," not "people of LBGT.") (And I'll finally mention that this should probably be moved to the Language desk, but I don't know how to do that.) Temerarius (talk) 20:32, 14 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks, gnu and Temerarius for the link and the discussion. Moving the topic should not be a problem; I think it should suffice to delete it here and insert it under the correct day there. I hadn't thought of that desk; I only had considered the Miscellaneous desk. Throwaway20191211 (talk) 22:59, 15 December 2019 (UTC)


 * I've heard allistic used as the a term for 'not autistic.' --Golbez (talk) 23:41, 15 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes, thanks, that's already mentioned in the article Neurotypical. Throwaway20191211 (talk) 14:41, 17 December 2019 (UTC)