Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2019 June 24

= June 24 =

Identical twins with significantly different lifespans
Which identical twins had significantly different lifespans? So far, I could think of William Frankland. He is still alive right now at age 107 while his identical twin brother died in 1995 at the age of 83. That's a 24+ year lifespan difference between them in spite of the fact that they are identical twins and thus share the same DNA. Futurist110 (talk) 05:31, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
 * List of twins lists about 17 who died shortly after birth, for example, Liberace (twin died as an infant), Elvis Presley (twin brother died at birth), Ed Sullivan (twin brother died as an infant), William Randolph Hearst (twin died as an infant). I don't know which, if any, of those were identical. Their articles might say. I don't think DNA has much to do with it.--Shantavira|feed me 07:03, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
 * What about excluding those who died during infancy or childhood? Futurist110 (talk) 15:04, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
 * same DNA won't prevent different exposure to accident, disease, etc.Gem fr (talk) 08:02, 24 June 2019 (UTC)


 * This isn't uncommon. This study analyzed twin pairs in the US military (who had both survived the war), with dates of birth between 1917 and 1927. Even though fraternal twins did have greater variation in lifespan, both types of twins had gaps between death dates. If I'm reading it right, for pairs where only one twin had died by age 63-74, the gap was already on average 15 years. Here's another example that found an average 10-year difference in life expectancy for identical twins. 70.67.193.176 (talk) 16:17, 24 June 2019 (UTC)


 * One famous example is Norris McWhirter and Ross McWhirter, founders of the Guinness Book of Records. The book used to note that they "are not only identical twins, they have almost identical biographies"&mdash;until Ross was murdered at age 50.  Norris lived to 78. --76.69.117.113 (talk) 10:24, 25 June 2019 (UTC)
 * The McWhirters crossed my mind, but is the OP including death by something other than natural causes? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 11:32, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

2026 Winter Olympic host city
What hour will it be (Eastern Time) when I hear the host city is known?? Georgia guy (talk) 15:05, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Sorry you didn't get an answer in time. Links for completionists: 2026 Winter Olympics and Milan and Cortina d'Ampezzo. 70.67.193.176 (talk) 16:20, 24 June 2019 (UTC)

A. H. Barrett
I have several original art works by A H Barrett and was wondering if anyone knows the value of these. A google search only finds others asking the same question. Any assistance would be deeply appreciated. Anton 81.131.40.58 (talk) 17:01, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Best idea is to look for publicly listed auctions of his work, either in the news or in auctionhouse websites, and see if the sale price is given. If you can find auction houses or auction sites that have sold his work, but not the price, you can contact the curators to ask what his work sells for. Someguy1221 (talk) 01:22, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

Origin of the "traditional" Anglo-French animosity?
A recent after-dinner conversation with some friends has divided us into two camps. Some maintain that the intermittent hostilities between English and French (which basically ended with the defeat of Napoleon) began with the Norman Conquest of 1066. The other side claims it is significantly older, starting soon after the Anglo-Saxons moved into the area and came into conflict with the Franks. Which side is closer to the truth? Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 19:07, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Traditionally, the era when the two countries were enemies is considered as lasting from the Capetian–Plantagenet rivalry to the defeat of Napoleon. Before that, there were only sporadic clashes (and 1066 can be seen as an internal English affair, with a member of the extended family being brought into the conflict; France as a state was not involved). See Anglo-French Wars. Xuxl (talk) 19:32, 24 June 2019 (UTC)


 * To some degree it could be just due to geographical proximity (which can lead to friction in many ways) -- sometimes a phenomenon can be observed where nations dislike other nearby nations, but like nations which are one degree more distant. For example, there was enmity between France and England, but a long-standing alliance between France and Scotland.  Traditionally, Poles dislike both Germany and Russia, but like the French.  Also, for a long time Bulgarians looked up to Russia as a kind of "big sister", etc. AnonMoos (talk) 19:55, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
 * +1. Nations usually war with their neighbors, and the enemy of my enemy is my friend. It takes an even stronger common enemy to force neighbors to ally (Russia or Germany, in the Anglo-French case), and generations, that is, centuries, for old grudges to turn into joking material Gem fr (talk) 07:51, 25 June 2019 (UTC)
 * "Traditionally, Poles dislike both Germany and Russia" I would suspect that this is a consequence of the 18th-century Partitions of Poland, when the Habsburg Monarchy, the Kingdom of Prussia, and the Russian Empire annexed the areas of the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth. There were also a number of wars between Polish and Russian states which took place between the 16th and the 20th centuries. The relationship with various states of the Holy Roman Empire was rather more complex. Dimadick (talk) 12:09, 25 June 2019 (UTC)
 * You need a time traveling machine to explain Polish–Lithuanian–Teutonic War or Jagiellonian Poland fight against Muscovy this way Gem fr (talk) 14:44, 25 June 2019 (UTC)
 * This article might provide some information, as well as an opportunity to improve it.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 12:20, 25 June 2019 (UTC)
 * The title of that article isn't really well-aligned with its contents, since the United Kingdom didn't exist until 1801 (not to mention that before 1603, Scottish relations with France were often very different from English relations with France). AnonMoos (talk) 13:10, 25 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Indeed, it should probably be split into pre-1801 and post-1801 articles.  We also have Auld Alliance.   Ghmyrtle (talk) 14:04, 25 June 2019 (UTC)
 * "Anglo=French" is the usual term, which gets around all that 1801 stuff. The difference between Great Britain and the United Kingdom is insignificant in comparison to the various French kingdoms, republics, consulates and empires over the same period. Alansplodge (talk) 16:18, 26 June 2019 (UTC)


 * The 1066 Norman Conquest can be seen as a late manifestation of Viking expansion. Alansplodge (talk) 16:13, 26 June 2019 (UTC)
 * By the way, Dodger67, the animosity actually didn't end at the era of Waterloo. The French ironclad Gloire (the world's first real ironclad), built in 1859, directly prompted the construction of HMS Warrior, as the British knew that an ocean-going French ironclad was potentially a major threat.  And this was after the cooperation of the Crimean War.  War between the two powers was a possibility as late as 1899, when the Fashoda Incident led at least the British to mobilize for war.  Nyttend (talk) 03:13, 27 June 2019 (UTC)
 * See also Palmerston Forts. DuncanHill (talk) 09:28, 27 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Friend or foe? The French are both mentions the habit of Lord Raglan of referring to his Russian enemies as "the damned French", even in the presence of his French allies. Alansplodge (talk) 16:15, 27 June 2019 (UTC)