Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2019 May 2

= May 2 =

Artistic movements timeline
I'm having trouble coming up with the right search term. What I'd like to find is some kind of graphic that displays the various artistic (in the broadest sense) movements in the last few centuries on some kind of timeline and which showed connections and splits, etc. Kind of like this or this, but something with enough detail to show stuff like the Decaadents and the Symbolists, but also broad-ranging enough to encompass more than one medium. I'd like to get a better understanding of how, say, Romanticism led to X in the visual arts and Y in literature and Z in music, etc. and so on. I've found a few things that are kind of along those lines, but are too restrictive in either scope or time frame. Any help? I kind of feel like I've seen something like this.

Also, if you do find something that seems to match my query, I'd appreciate knowing what terms you searched under. Matt Deres (talk) 01:45, 2 May 2019 (UTC)


 * Is this any good? Alansplodge (talk) 12:31, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
 * It's got some neat stuff in it for sure, so I appreciate the link, but the format I'm looking for is more like the stuff Taknaran found. Matt Deres (talk) 19:07, 2 May 2019 (UTC)


 * "art history tree diagram" came up with these hits, , -- all narrower than you want in subject but perhaps closer in spirit? Also discovered that Manuel Lima has written a series of books that might contain what you are looking for. --Taknaran (talk) 13:53, 2 May 2019 (UTC)


 * Yes, these are on the right track, especially the first two. They're like the examples I provided, but as you say, they have the same issue of being bit narrow. I was hoping for something that would allow me to take subjects that were part of multiple media and follow along how those ideas propagated into subsequent schools across those different media. I actually was expecting for WP to have something broadly similar, at least in text form. Matt Deres (talk) 19:17, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

Cities whose names rhyme in a particular language
Which pairs or groups of cities have names who rhyme in a particular language?

I'll start:

Nanzig (Nancy in German) and Danzig (Gdansk in German).

Kovno (Kaunas in Russian) and Rovno (Rivne in Russian).

Which other cases of this are there? Also, please try to avoid the obvious examples. Futurist110 (talk) 03:23, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Minsk and Pinsk come to mind. But maybe you could list the ones you consider obvious, so there will be no redundancy. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 12:10, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
 * You forgot to mention Dvinsk here. Futurist110 (talk) 17:09, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
 * I also forgot about Omsk and Tomsk. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 17:43, 2 May 2019 (UT
 * Also self-rhyming places, such as Hong Kong. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 17:45, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
 * "I have a friend in Minsk, who has a friend in Pinsk, whose friend in Omsk has friend in Tomsk with friend in Akmolinsk..." (Lobachevsky (song)) ('tube). There is a much longer series of rhyming Russian cities in the song. 173.228.123.207 (talk) 22:46, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Da. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 23:50, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Considering the thousands upon thousands of cities, and the hundreds upon hundreds of languages in the world, it should be trivial to come up with tons of such places. Milton and Wilton.  Harris and Paris.  Etc.  -- Jayron 32 12:16, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
 * What if they are just different spellings of the same name, such as Raleigh and Rolla? 68.115.219.139 (talk) 13:50, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Those don't really rhyme any more. The spelling difference between Raleigh, North Carolina and Rolla, Missouri is due to a peculiar dialect spoken by the specific settlers of Rolla, Missouri.  Most dialects, including those currently spoken in both places, currently do not pronounce those similar.  "Rah-lee" and "Rawl-la".  Not really that close.  -- Jayron 32 13:53, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
 * In Missour-ah, Raleigh is pronounced Ral-ah. So, it does rhyme for about six million people. Any argument about "proper" pronunciation will undoubtedly end in a fist fight over the "proper" pronunciation of pecan (and don't dare claim that you pronounce it pecan!) 209.149.113.5 (talk) 16:34, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. -- Jayron 32 16:39, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Interesting; in England it's generally "Rah-lee" but in the Southwest, "Raw-lee" is thought proper. Alansplodge (talk) 16:47, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
 * I know people from Raleigh, NC who pronounce it Rally as in a road race. But, I stopped questioning pronunciation after being stationed in Beaufort, SC (pronounced Bee-you-fort) where they have major roads like Jean-Ribaut Blvd (pronounced Gene Ribbit Road). 97.82.165.112 (talk) 00:13, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Poetry for Kids has already made a collection. --Taknaran (talk) 13:54, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Very interesting. I wonder in what language Milwaukee rhymes with Nagasaki? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 17:35, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
 * The "kee" and "ki" sound the same to me. --Khajidha (talk) 19:51, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
 * But that is not what rhyme is about. The final stressed syllables need to sound the same, and "waukee" and "saki" fail that test.  Unless, of course, you say "Naga-sawkee" or "Mil-wahki".  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  00:44, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
 * I had never heard of rhyme being defined so stringently until you mentioned it and I checked the article. In my experience, the looser definition given there is the one I've always used and (at least I thought) encountered. --Khajidha (talk) 01:07, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
 * The first line of Rhyme says: A rhyme is a repetition of similar sounds (usually, the exact same sound) in the final stressed syllables (and any following syllables) of two or more words. That means that Hollywood and Bollywood rhyme, not because they both end in -wood (although that is a secondary part of the rhyme), but because in both cases the final stressed syllable is -oll.  But redwood, plywood, dogwood and Hollywood are all mutually exclusive as rhyming partners because, although they meet the secondary condition, they fail the main condition. --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  17:52, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
 * And the third line says "Less strictly speaking, a rhyme may also variously refer to other types of similar sounds near the ends of two or more words." By the usage of the term "rhyme" I am familiar with, all of those rhyme. --Khajidha (talk) 19:29, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

There's a poem that plays on Salisbury, England being called "Sarum" and Hampshire being called "Hants": There was a young curate of Salisbury Whose manners were quite halisbury-scalisbury. He ran around Hampshire Without any pampshire, Till his bishop compelled him to walisbury. 173.228.123.207 (talk) 22:59, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Boston and Austin, both USA (and both are state capitals). Rome, Italy, and Nome, USA  → Michael J Ⓣ Ⓒ Ⓜ 00:20, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Continuing with US state and territory capitals (past and present), and using the same logic that rhymes Milwaukee with Nagasaki, we have Carson City and Jefferson City, and Oregon City. We also have Indianapolis and Annapolis. And Cheyenne and Saipan. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 02:52, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

Half of China: Nanjing / Beijing; Guangzhou / Hangzhou; Nanning / Yining; Shanghai / Qinghai (actually a province), etc. DOR (HK) (talk) 17:53, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

Recent IOC country code changes
In 2016, Singapore switched its olympic code from SIN to SGP (source). According to the List of IOC country codes, also in 2016 Lebanon switched from LIB to LBN, but I've failed to find a source for this. Is there a general list of changes in IOC codes? Have there been other cases in recent years? --KnightMove (talk) 07:18, 2 May 2019 (UTC)


 * The list here https://stillmed.olympic.org/media/Document%20Library/OlympicOrg/Documents/National-Olympic-Committees/List-of-National-Olympic-Committees-in-IOC-Protocol-Order.pdf still shows Lebanon as LIB. MilborneOne (talk) 17:40, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
 * But the IOC country page of Lebanon on the same website uses LBN, and I guess this is the up-to-date information. --KnightMove (talk) 19:50, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
 * In the Web Archive version of 20 October 2016, Lebanon is still LIB, since 2 February 2017 it's LBN. So there is no doubt that this change occurred. --KnightMove (talk) 01:52, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

The Whigs' plans in regards to Mexico if President Polk couldn't secure a peace treaty with the Mexicans by November 1848
Does anyone know what the Whigs' plans in regards to Mexico were if US President James K. Polk couldn't get a treaty passed by November 1848 and if the Whigs would have won the 1848 US presidential election?

In real life, Polk was able to get the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo signed and ratified several months before the November 1848 election. However, what if Polk's negotiator Nicholas Trist would have followed Polk's orders and insisted on the cession of more Mexican territory and caused the Mexicans to try stalling until the November 1848 presidential election in the US in the hopes of getting better peace terms from a new US administration?

Did the Whigs have any plans as to what exactly they should do in such a scenario? As in, if a new Whig US President comes into office in 1849 and sees that the US has been occupying Mexico for over a year now without getting any peace treaty.

Any thoughts on this? Futurist110 (talk) 19:55, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

Native Americans in the Western hemisphere
Why the native Indians of USA should be considered the only native Americans?! If native Indians from North, central, and South America are also native Americans. The term America wasn't named after USA. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AlverichA (talk • contribs) 22:51, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
 * 573 Native American tribes are recognized by the Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA) of the United States, see list. DroneB (talk) 23:08, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
 * You have two arguments. First, why is USA commonly called America. Second, does Native American include groups outsidpe of USA? For the first, United States of America is long, so we say America. For the second, Native American is a politically correct way to replace the legal term Indian in the USA. It won't refer to people who in no way live in the USA. Your argument doesn't make sense also my question wasn't answered the whole Western hemisphere was named America not the USA. USA is not the only American nation — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.82.165.112 (talk) 23:32, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
 * North America, South America, and United States of America. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:44, 3 May 2019 (UTC)


 * Note that, in other parts of the Americas, the pre-European inhabitants are referred to by other terms. In Canada, for example, the term used is “First Nations”.  Blueboar (talk) 00:52, 3 May 2019 (UTC)


 * I don't know what you are talking about, my question was, Why the native Indians of USA should be considered the only native Americans?! If native Indians from North, central, and South America are also native Americans. The term America wasn't named after USA. The Americas is referred to the American countries that are part of the American continent or Western hemisphere — Preceding unsigned comment added by AlverichA (talk • contribs) 01:19, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Please separate you post from other editors comments and sign them with four tildes ~ before hitting the save button. MarnetteD&#124;Talk 01:28, 3 May 2019 (UTC)


 * [e/c] Also note that "The Americas" was named by/after Amerigo Vespucci, who managed to convince fellow Europeans that Columbus didn't actually find a western route to Asia, but found someplace "new" instead. For some reason, however, those folks in the New World were still called "Indians" even after they realized that they weren't from India. —2606:A000:1126:28D:447D:7EBA:A01A:8F3B (talk) 01:34, 3 May 2019 (UTC) -- ps: Indigenous peoples of the Americas (North/Central/South) are all known as "Indians", although that term is becoming obsolete.
 * [linefeed added for clarity]

The native Indians of North, Central, and South America are native Americans, the term Indians relates to all the native Americans of the Western hemisphere. The whole Western hemisphere was named AMERICA not Americas in honor of Amerigo Vespucci --
 * Are you really looking for information, or just an argument? And when are you going to start signing your posts? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 02:06, 3 May 2019 (UTC)


 * Note that Indian is a disambiguation page that includes natives from North/Central/South America. —2606:A000:1126:28D:447D:7EBA:A01A:8F3B (talk) 02:20, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

my main question wasn't answered. I am not looking for information, I am looking for an explanation "why the indians of USA should be called the only native Americans?!" My supposed argument is a fact The whole continent was named AMERICA, it wasn't named the Americas — Preceding unsigned comment added by AlverichA (talk • contribs) 02:39, 3 May 2019 (UTC)


 * Your premise is erroneous -- per above. See also: The Americas. 2606:A000:1126:28D:447D:7EBA:A01A:8F3B (talk) 02:47, 3 May 2019 (UTC)