Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2019 October 6

= October 6 =

Pensions in Ireland and Poland
Please tell me, does anyone know when pensions were introduced in Ireland and Poland (and when they became widespread)? --Vyacheslav84 (talk) 09:51, 6 October 2019 (UTC)


 * For Ireland, Old-Age Pensions Act 1908. Alansplodge (talk) 11:26, 6 October 2019 (UTC)
 * This article says that when the Irish Free State inherited the pension bill after independence, they were forced to cut pensions by a shilling (5 new pence) in 1924 to make ends meet. Alansplodge (talk) 13:40, 6 October 2019 (UTC)


 * This article says 1933 for Poland. Alansplodge (talk)
 * This US government site says: Poland - Old Age, Disability, and Survivors Regulatory Framework - First laws: 1927 (salaried employees) and 1933 (wage earners). Alansplodge (talk) 12:05, 6 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much! --Vyacheslav84 (talk) 03:41, 7 October 2019 (UTC)

thank you all. we discussed the impact of pensions on fertility — Preceding unsigned comment added by Наталья гончарова (talk • contribs) 12:21, 6 October 2019 (UTC) Наталья гончарова (talk) 12:25, 6 October 2019 (UTC)

If Trump gets impeached . ..
As I am not an American, I have no idea how the politics work. If Trump does get impeached and is forced to resign, normally the VP (Pence) would take over the Presidential duties. So, my question is: if Pence is also found guilty of some offence, who would take over the Presidential duties? 2001:1970:585C:9000:719D:9151:2026:6A49 (talk) 23:52, 6 October 2019 (UTC)
 * See Twenty-fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution and United States presidential line of succession. If Trump were to be impeached by the House and convicted by the Senate, and removed from office, then Pence would become president and the vice-presidency would be vacant.  Pence could nominate a new vice-president, who would have to be confirmed by Congress.  In the meantime, the House could impeach Pence.  If Congress confirmed the successor, and then Pence were impeached and convicted and removed from office, the successor would become president.  If Pence were removed from office before a successor was confirmed, the Speaker of the House (currently Nancy Pelosi) would become acting president of the United States. --Trovatore (talk) 00:21, 7 October 2019 (UTC)


 * And just in case it's not clear, "impeachment does not in itself remove the official from office; it is similar to an indictment in criminal law, and thus it is essentially the statement of charges against the official". And nobody can force him to resign, they would actually need a 2/3 vote from the Republican-controlled Senate to remove him. So, unless they suddenly decide to put the nation ahead of their Party (or think Trump does more damage to the Party by staying), that's not likely to happen. SinisterLefty (talk) 00:52, 7 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Bill Clinton was impeached, but he did not resign. He was not convicted of both articles of impeachment in the Senate. Sir Joseph (talk) 01:00, 7 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Or, to possibly clarify, was not convicted of either article of impeachment. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 03:42, 7 October 2019 (UTC)


 * In drama-form, see for example Twenty Five (The West Wing) or Designated Survivor (TV series). Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:59, 7 October 2019 (UTC)


 * To spell out a detail in Trovatore's post, if Trump is removed from office, Pence would become president and would nominate a new VP, who would then have to be confirmed by the Senate, not the entire Congress (the US Congress consists of the US Senate and the US House of Representatives). The reason that matters is because the Senate is currently controlled by Republicans, while the House is controlled by Democrats.  So Pence's VP nomination would likely get approved without too much fuss.  In any case, Pence has been kind of a nonentity in office, so it's unlikely that there would be an impeachment case against him.  He'd have a presidency sort of like that of Gerald Ford.  That is in contrast with Dick Cheney (VP under George W. Bush), since Cheney himself was very controversial.  So if an impeachment action against Bush had gotten rolling, it quite possibly could have taken out Cheney as well, making Pelosi president (she was House Speaker at that time, just like now).  All hell would likely have broken loose if that happened.  It would have been... interesting. I remember a non-US friend asking me during the Bush administration if I thought a black person could ever become US president (that was before anyone heard of Obama).  I said yes, a black woman in fact (thinking of then-US National Security Advisor Condoleeza Rice, who might have landed in the White House after enough musical chairs had taken out Bush and Cheney) and the person was shocked. I should add: I thought a few weeks ago that the current Republic-controlled Senate would not possibly remove Trump, and that the whole impeachment "inquiry" was dumb theatrics, but it's all over the news now anyway, so maybe it's a thing. 67.164.113.165 (talk) 02:17, 9 October 2019 (UTC)


 * Many of Trump's minions have sworn eternal loyalty to him, until they get into trouble, then they swap sides faster than you can blink. The same may well happen with Republican Senators. So long as they think sticking with Trump is their best hope of being re-elected next time, they will swear it's all just a blatant power grab by the Democrats, but the second they think Trump is hurting their chances, they will all jump ship like rats on a sinking ship. Trump has insulted many of them, personally, after all, so any loyalty they show is merely out of the convenience of the moment. SinisterLefty (talk) 02:27, 9 October 2019 (UTC)


 * There was a joke that Trump took out an insurance policy against impeachment, before he took office. How much was the premium?  Just one Pence. 67.164.113.165 (talk) 02:54, 9 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but that's incorrect. A new VP requires confirmation by both houses of Congress. --47.146.63.87 (talk) 04:06, 9 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Wow, thanks for the correction. I have no idea how I got the bad info.  67.164.113.165 (talk) 08:02, 9 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Muricans need to change the name of their country to Disunited Peoples of America. This fight between, on one side, Liberals, rich women, CIA and white collars, and on the other side, Rednecks, poor men and blue collars, with Corporations and Military pushing pawns and profiting in both, is fascinating. Gem fr (talk) 10:00, 10 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Conflict between haves and have-nots is as old as humanity itself. There's nothing uniquely American about it. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 10:25, 10 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Sure, the funny thing is the haves claiming to be saving the world from the evil retarded deplorable have-nots (not only in USA, for sure) Gem fr (talk) 11:31, 10 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Not all the wealthy are liberals, and not all the poor are conservatives. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 12:01, 10 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Indeed, more lower-income voters voted for Clinton than Trump, as did voters in "union households". Higher-income households were about evenly split. Look at the other breakdowns and see if you can figure out which demographics elected Trump. --47.146.63.87 (talk) 03:18, 11 October 2019 (UTC)


 * It's amazing how some poor people were convinced Trump had their interests in mind. He promised coal miners they would all get their jobs back, which would require outlawing fracking, which provides the cheaper and cleaner natural gas alternative, and banning use of robotics, which has reduced the need for coal miners. And we'd need to also ban lawsuits, so coal mine owners would no longer be worried about being sued for causing black lung disease. SinisterLefty (talk) 04:17, 11 October 2019 (UTC)


 * Also, conflict between factions of haves is nothing new. —Tamfang (talk) 17:10, 10 October 2019 (UTC)


 * While there are members of every group in each camp, if we're going by what distinguishes the groups, it's more like "uneducated white racists vs. everyone else" . Someguy1221 (talk) 05:17, 11 October 2019 (UTC)
 * It's actually more basic than that: It's "us' and "them". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 11:24, 11 October 2019 (UTC)